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Angus vs Simmental in Tennessee

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A.J.

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ccr said:
A.J. said:
RockinRB said:
Angus x fleckvieh would make a dandy cross

They would be some great growing calves and good momma cows. One concern I would have here is the extra chrome you might get if selling at the sale barn. I’ve got an old Simangus cow I raised out of a brown and white Simmental. She raises a great calf every year, but if her calves have much chrome on the side or underneath they got docked pretty good. Some years she will have an almost solid black calf, and some years like this year she will throw one with tons of chrome.
A.J., what's the justification of being docked just cause they have some white on them. Is the white an indication to a feeder or packer that the calf wont be as good as a solid color, if so, what does it indicate?
It stinks, but they do it pretty much because they can, unfortunately. It could be the best looking calf in the bunch, and will still bring significantly less. The order buyers have orders for certain types of calves, so if it doesn’t fit what they are looking for they won’t bid, or if they do, will pay much less. CAB is probably a major factor that helped increase the demand so much for black-hided calves over others. That’s why all the breeds started showing up with black hided versions. I always figured the feedlots or packers one make a lot on those calves bought cheap that are good calves, but are just marked funny or off-color. Others more knowledgeable than me may chime in with more information on the how’s and why’s tho.
 

ccr

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Whoever came up with the certified angus beef and its promotion was a genius, I guess.
 

T & B farms

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A balancer cow made up of 75% gelbvieh and 25% angus with a large frame terminal type purebred sim is about the best thing I can find. A touch of ear on the cows would be even better.
 
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Square_Dancer

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Thanks for the replies. Obviously there's no "correct" answer, but lots of good takes. Regarding registered cattle, it certainly seems Simmental has a lower barrier of entry, but there are a lot of big players in the registered Angus game in TN (e.g. Deer Valley). Little background, but my grandfather had a herd of 50~ head of registered Fleckvieh Simmental for many decades and did quite well at it. He sold the herd a few years ago because he's approaching 90 now and wants to relax and focus on his gardening, fishing, and hunting, as well has hanging the with grandkids and great grandkids, that sort of stuff.
Recently I had been flirting with the idea of getting a herd of 10~ registered cows and was just kinda torn between the two breeds. I know Angus is king in the U.S. as far as numbers of registered cattle and registered operations, but also like Simmental (not necessarily Fleckvieh) for obvious nostalgic reasons.
 

sstterry

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ccr said:
Whoever came up with the certified angus beef and its promotion was a genius, I guess.

It was some of the National Angus Association Board members that came up with the idea back in the early 80's as I recall. One of the board members' farm was just about 30 miles from me. For those of us old enough to remember, back before the mid 70's, Angus cattle were short and fat. They started breeding that out in the 70's. The Angus Association came up with CAB to combat the stigma of short fat cattle. On Pasture has a good article called "From Big to Small to Big to Small"






 

WinterSpringsFarm

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Make no mistake, the Simmental breed is just as competitive if not more so than the Angus breed. The big players in the simmental breed are raising incredible cattle.

In my opinion it just depends on what kind of cattle you like to look at. I myself prefer to look at baldy and blaze face simmentals and red angus.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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The feedlot buyers dock them "because they can". The white on the body or bellie does not affect the CAB qualification. All they have to be is 50% black hided. It would take a lot of white chrome to be more than 50%.
If I was just starting out, I would probably want to have a herd of SimAngus (commercial or registered). There is no better cow out there than your crossbred - and Simmental and Angus are about the best cross available.
There can be quite a lot of temperament differences between an Angus herd and a Simmental one. Be sure you know your breeders' herd before purchasing cows. I have been breeding Simmental for about 50 years now. Love the breed. Love the excitement of not knowing exactly what color/markings that newborn is going to be. You gotta love going out and looking at your cows, so you have to have what YOU WANT to work with and look at. Making money is nice/mandatory - but you need to enjoy what you are doing, because it is a lot of work for little reward.
 
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Square_Dancer

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Thanks for the info, Jeanne.
Would you want to start out with Simmental cows and put an Angus bull on them, or the inverse; Angus cows with a Simmental bull?
 

sstterry

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Square_Dancer said:
Thanks for the info, Jeanne.
Would you want to start out with Simmental cows and put an Angus bull on them, or the inverse; Angus cows with a Simmental bull?

Jeanne and others are much more knowledgeable than me, but I think it would depend on the cows and bulls. I don't have time for calving problems so I want to make sure I know the cow will be able to calve with little difficulty. Right now most of my cows are Angus Charolais cross and they are big cows. I currently have them with a Simmental Bull. I am expecting my first calves from him this fall.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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I would recommend using a Simmental bull on a group of commercial cows. The Simmental breed has made the largest advancement of calving ease than any other breed (according to ASA info - LOL) But, Simmental breed is supposed to be within 1% CE to Angus and better than Herefords. So, you decide. There are cow killers in all breeds and there are super great CE bulls in pretty much all breeds. You have to do your homework before purchasing.
All F1 cross cows make super great moms. Higher milk production, higher fertility, longer longevity, etc - but make that F1 a 1/2 Simmental cow and I don't think you could ask for a better working mom. But, you have to realize that I am true blue Simmental queen!!! 50 years and they haven't turned me off!!!
 

gitnby

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Jeanne and others are much more knowledgeable than me, but I think it would depend on the cows and bulls. I don't have time for calving problems so I want to make sure I know the cow will be able to calve with little difficulty. Right now most of my cows are Angus Charolais cross and they are big cows. I currently have them with a Simmental Bull. I am expecting my first calves from him this fall.
how did your calves from simmental bull turn out......thinking of same cross....would you recomend it...my cows are smaller to mid size.
 

sstterry

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how did your calves from simmental bull turn out......thinking of same cross....would you recomend it...my cows are smaller to mid size.
I have a Calving Ease Bull and the calves appeared to be on the small side when they were born (my request because I don't have time to babysit and pull calves). But boy are they growing fast. So, I am very pleased. If you want to send me a private message and tell you where you are located I will give you the name and contact info of the breeder. He used to be on this Board and he is strictly AI and takes great pride in his genetic program. There are others on this Board that have also bought Bulls from him.
 

Silver

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I run Simmental bulls both fullblood and crossbred (3/4 to 15/16) crossed Red Angus for the most part, with the odd 5/8 Simmental. On a commercial herd I believe it's hard to beat. But I am fortunate to not have to play the black hided game. Up here a fullblood Simmental calf sells on it's merit, not it's colour.

Edit: I'm not in Tennessee so take it for what it's worth
 
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uplandnut

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I don't think you could go wrong with either combination of angus cows and simmental bull or simmental cows and angus bull. Whatever you do, buy the cows you like to look at because they are probably going to be around longer than your bull. As another topic on the board states, "Breed what you love" because it will be more for enjoyment than anything else.
 
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Warren Allison

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Your area is a lot like Ga and the rest of the SE in that black is king. Angus or Chiangus will do well for you. A little ear will do even better, so Brangus will work for you., too. And people in the south love their black baldies. The heifers sell well for replacements, and the steers aren't docked. If you had a herd of black baldies, and bred them to homozygous black Angus or black Brangus, you'd wean a crop of black, polled claves every year that will bring top dollar. Now, if you REALLY want to make money, with a minimum investment in your brood cows, and want to have the least interaction as far as doctoring, parasite control, and calving, get some Criollo cows: Corriente, Piney Woods, Fla Cracker, Fla Scrub and Longhorn. Especially with the Corriente, you can by 3 cows for what you'd pay for a good commercial beef cow. And raise those 3 on the same pasture, and the same hay, as a big commercial beef cow. They thrive in heat and humidity, as well as drought conditions, and bitter cold. They are insect and parasite resistant. They do as well on marginal pasture as they do lush pastures. They are like a goat...they will eat weeds, briars, honey suckle and kudzu. Breed them with a homozygous black Angus ( or Brangus), and they will drop you a black polled calf, that at weaning, will stand as tall as their mommas. Again,. especially the Corrientes, right before weaning, you will see those big black calves on their knees to nurse. You can raise 70-80 of them, on the same pasture, and with the same amount of hay, as 50 commercial beef cows. You will get them up when its time to castrate the bull calves, and again at weaning, and that's all you would HAVE to fool with them. unless you just want to. Now, a lot of people are going to post comments poo-pooing the idea, and giving me flack, but they have probably never tried this. Or knew anyone who did.
 

Stocker Steve

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Simi cross calves are muscular and grow well. Some Simi cows are high input. Profit wise - - low input cows and a simi or simangus bull pays better.
 

Ky hills

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Your area is a lot like Ga and the rest of the SE in that black is king. Angus or Chiangus will do well for you. A little ear will do even better, so Brangus will work for you., too. And people in the south love their black baldies. The heifers sell well for replacements, and the steers aren't docked. If you had a herd of black baldies, and bred them to homozygous black Angus or black Brangus, you'd wean a crop of black, polled claves every year that will bring top dollar. Now, if you REALLY want to make money, with a minimum investment in your brood cows, and want to have the least interaction as far as doctoring, parasite control, and calving, get some Criollo cows: Corriente, Piney Woods, Fla Cracker, Fla Scrub and Longhorn. Especially with the Corriente, you can by 3 cows for what you'd pay for a good commercial beef cow. And raise those 3 on the same pasture, and the same hay, as a big commercial beef cow. They thrive in heat and humidity, as well as drought conditions, and bitter cold. They are insect and parasite resistant. They do as well on marginal pasture as they do lush pastures. They are like a goat...they will eat weeds, briars, honey suckle and kudzu. Breed them with a homozygous black Angus ( or Brangus), and they will drop you a black polled calf, that at weaning, will stand as tall as their mommas. Again,. especially the Corrientes, right before weaning, you will see those big black calves on their knees to nurse. You can raise 70-80 of them, on the same pasture, and with the same amount of hay, as 50 commercial beef cows. You will get them up when its time to castrate the bull calves, and again at weaning, and that's all you would HAVE to fool with them. unless you just want to. Now, a lot of people are going to post comments poo-pooing the idea, and giving me flack, but they have probably never tried this. Or knew anyone who did.
As far as individual cows making money, I purchased a 400 lb longhorn type heifer. Kept her and bred to an Angus bull, sold her first calf and more than paid for her with her first calf. That being said she hasn’t had a polled calf yet. Don’t believe I would personally want a whole herd of them but if they were bred to good bulls it might be ok for some.
 

Ky hills

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We bought a black Simmental bull a few weeks ago. A first for us as I have been using Angus bulls for about 20 years, and few Herefords for about 5 years.
 

Warren Allison

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As far as individual cows making money, I purchased a 400 lb longhorn type heifer. Kept her and bred to an Angus bull, sold her first calf and more than paid for her with her first calf. That being said she hasn’t had a polled calf yet. Don’t believe I would personally want a whole herd of them but if they were bred to good bulls it might be ok for some.
Read that post on Calving/Breeding board Nov 16 on the thread started by Little Joe,. I think it was. Where you posted her and the new calf? She probably has Watusi in her. I had a herd of close to 100 Corrientes, with some Longhorn/Corriente crosses and some Watusi-LH x with Corrientes. for years. I bred them to Angus and Brangus, and they were always black and polled, except occasionally from 1 or 2 of the cows, a calf might have some nubs. These were probably cows that had the Watusi blood. Most likely,. your cow does, too.
 

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