Angus or Limousin

[catl]

We run Limousin's and bred all our heifers to angus (red or black) or Red Polls.

I wouldn't bred heifers to a Limousin because of the breeding problems we had when we tried. We look to have a successful birth and raising for our heifers over the calves selling potential. I think they are great bulls on commercial cows.

In the 80's, my uncle put a limo on his commercial Hereford cows. It was a nightmare pulling those big round hips out of heifers.

I meant "calving problems" instead of "breeding problems." How did the calves from the cows do?

How did the cows do :?:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Shorthorns went from the peakest butts to great butts with Maine bloodlines. Luckily Shorthorns had enough milk to offset the lacking milk of the Maine's. There are some fantastic Shorthorns running around now - of course there are still the dairy butted ones also. Met a lady yesterday that raises milking shorthorts, but she doesn't milk them, she uses them as cow/calf pairs & shows them.

 

[tapeworm]

Yep those cows got black crossing em with an Angus, and those Angus suddenly got taller crossing em with a Holestein. Its downright amazing what you can do with a little crossbreeding

You really figure it was a milk cow that put the frame on the old-fashioned Angus??? I'd have voted for a little Chi in the woodpile myself. Less chance of spottin back up that way. Whatever it was we all pay the price with cows that eat enough for two and frame scores that oughtta be measured in hands.....bonus for saddle broke!!!!

 

[dun]

You need to read back and see some of the posts about the Angus cattle from Britain, may allow you to see where the height came from.

dun

 

[jerry27150]

if you want to stay with black, why not use a black brangus. you would get more growth rate & heifers from this cross would have less calving troubles. they are tougher & calves get on their feet quickly. they also stand the heat & bugs better than most.

 

[Wewild]

Black limo's work for us. Everybody's got their own solution. There seems to be a lot of rock throwing about breeds. To each his own. Everyone has to make a living with their choices. Those that have been around a while must be doing something right.

 

[texhallMT]

Nice post wewild
Now to the original question: A lot of what we do as an industry needs to be 'relooked' with a business perspective. your question needs to be phrased more properly as "which bull is the BEST for MY particular herd" and then define what you mean by best. While I agree with wewild's choice now (simply because a limi cross will work best for my herd RIGHT NOW) the other's in here may or may not have valid reasons for their bull choices. Some will get a certain bull because it's worked for them in the past, eliminate others because of past performance (Limi's were kind of nutty a long time ago -- but look how far others like Santa Gertrudis et al have come in terms of handling ability and being docile).
So ... what market are you selling your calves to? What do your buyers want to see in your calves? where are your cows developmentally? how much do you want to invest in a bull or bulls in time, dollars, management, etc.?
Each decision needs to be made on currrent and future criteria, not necessarily on the way it's always been done. So to find the BEST bull for you right now, try this:
-Define what you mean by BEST (birth weights, weaning weights, other criteria);
-set some eliminating criteria (price, percentage of breed(s), ear/no ear); get facts that relate to your decision;
-make assumptions for critical things that you can't find the facts on (you can add those in later if you find them);
-then make a set of criteria to evaluate the options (color, hardiness, BW, WW or those other dollar factors, etc) ;
- do a comparison of all options as to how they rate compared to each other according to YOUR criteria; Add in what your gut says to do also
What you might find out is that a bull that you liked won't give you as good of a return as one that you hadn't considered given all the things that you really want it to do. A business-like decision methodology will help drive you to a business-like decision that's a little more objective with some room for subjective input. But it will drive you to decide if you want to make money or have pretty cows.
Yup, a lot more work than just going with what the neighbors use or buying what is sold the hardest in our publications. And a lot of stuff from a guy who's only been in the business for a little over a year.
Polledbull hit the nail on the head about chasing black cows. Look at what the Appaloosa folks did chasing that color: got a bunch of neat colored dumb as rocks horses -- yeah,yeah, some are really good. But you can follow the goods ones through blood lines that didn't use color as the primary criteria for breeding. And maybe everybody here has the right bull for their herd. That don't make it right for yours. Each has some benefit and costs associated with it (eared cattle sometimes get docked at the sale, but provide good disease resistance in some areas of the country, etc). What you need to decide is which costs you can handle and which benefits you need to best suit your bottom line.

 

[jerry27150]

why you all like limos. back in pa. a lot of buyers cut them real hard cause they say they don't marble or finish well. my son had some in his herd & sold most cause they wouldn't breed til they were over a year & a half( over 850 lbs)

 

[greenwillowherefords]

We run Limousin's and bred all our heifers to angus (red or black) or Red Polls.

I wouldn't bred heifers to a Limousin because of the breeding problems we had when we tried. We look to have a successful birth and raising for our heifers over the calves selling potential. I think they are great bulls on commercial cows.

In the 80's, my uncle put a limo on his commercial Hereford cows. It was a nightmare pulling those big round hips out of heifers.

I meant "calving problems" instead of "breeding problems." How did the calves from the cows do?

Made big, framey red baldies that were a bit more high-strung than their mothers but not too bad. Some of them wound up with horns although it was a polled Hereford herd. They produced for a long time, and raised some nice big calves out of Brangus and Hereford bulls. My uncle stated that his heaviest weaning weights ever were sired by his last Hereford bull, which he got from Boynton, OK.

 

[texhallMT]

why you all like limos. back in pa. a lot of buyers cut them real hard cause they say they don't marble or finish well. my son had some in his herd & sold most cause they wouldn't breed til they were over a year & a half( over 850 lbs)

jerry27150,
You hit one point I made right before your post: what the 'best' bull is different for different people/different herds. If your buyers dock limis, it's because they want something else for their market. Jeanne - Simme Valley made that point pretty clearly. Since I'm new in this business, I sit with the buyers at the sale barns and ask what they're looking for: what's good/bad about what's in the ring; what do their customers want; what can I do for my cattle to help them (the buyers) meet their demands. Those types of things are some of the evaluation criteria for my decisions.
In my case, a Limi cross bull will help me at this point with most of my cattle (still have a half a red Limousin with my Mother-In-Law, don't ask which half is mine for the other part of the herd. But I've got a few Main/Angus crosses as well as some other larger cows. A Limousin bull will give me the length that they want, and will tone down some of that muscle/size that comes from them and some of my beefmaster crosses. Granted I run a little bigger cows than others around this area seem to do. But until I can start marketing straight to the consumer with my beef, I'll try my best to get the buyers what they want. Sounds like you do so as well if you're avoiding Limosin there since they get docked.
I happen to kind of like what Herefords can do in spite of some of their past problems. But they seem to get docked here if there's more than about an 1/8th to a 1/4. Guess what these folks seem to want from them is the white face :0
It would be interesting to hear from some of the cattle buyers in different parts of the country to learn what they want now and where they see the demand going in the future.
I believe it was POLLED BULL that mentioned the 'Heterosis and hybrid vigor' you get from crosses. And then he cited a source for us to read and get some education on that (facts, in that decision making process thing that I like). The pure breed folks have other criteria for their breeds and lines and where they're taking things. Yup, some definite facts. But NOT RELEVANT in the decision for a new bull for those of us with crossbreeds. Although you might find that a purebred bull will work for you IF the initial investment costs will get you the return you need to pay for him.
When we think oustide of the fence rows and get away from the way it's always been done we do take some risks. But we also have the opportunity to increase our bottom lines. And we need to track some of the "why's" in our decisions so that we can make changes as needed.
Some great discussion going on in here over a simple question! Who started this mess anyway :lol:

 

[jerry27150]

true tex, to each his own. i personally have a herd of mixed breeds & am now crossing with santa-gertrudis & brangus. i want more growth rate & easier calving. also something that takes the fescue & summer heat better.

 

[Wewild]

We run Limousin's and bred all our heifers to angus (red or black) or Red Polls.

I wouldn't bred heifers to a Limousin because of the breeding problems we had when we tried. We look to have a successful birth and raising for our heifers over the calves selling potential. I think they are great bulls on commercial cows.

In the 80's, my uncle put a limo on his commercial Hereford cows. It was a nightmare pulling those big round hips out of heifers.

I meant "calving problems" instead of "breeding problems." How did the calves from the cows do?

Made big, framey red baldies that were a bit more high-strung than their mothers but not too bad. Some of them wound up with horns although it was a polled Hereford herd. They produced for a long time, and raised some nice big calves out of Brangus and Hereford bulls. My uncle stated that his heaviest weaning weights ever were sired by his last Hereford bull, which he got from Boynton, OK.

Good. Sounds like they worked out purty well.