Angus Maternal sires

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Ok Angus lovers, I want your opinion. Assuming that I was going to start a herd by purchasing straightbred angus heifers, and purchasing a single bull to sire offspring to produce a herd of cows that are low on birth, moderate sized, fertile, and good disposition. What sire would you suggest the bull be out of?,
 

dun

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dun

Anonymous":zmzckzmw said:
Ok Angus lovers, I want your opinion. Assuming that I was going to start a herd by purchasing straightbred angus heifers, and purchasing a single bull to sire offspring to produce a herd of cows that are low on birth, moderate sized, fertile, and good disposition. What sire would you suggest the bull be out of?,
 

Jake

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OCC ANCHOR
DHD Traveler 6807

I'd go with 6807 because he's a better growth bull and his sons will really perform. Great animals!!
 

Jake

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DHD Traveler 6807

I'd go with 6807 because he's a better growth bull and his sons will really perform. Great animals!! well exept anchor his daughters just look good he's really a POS but he sires great cows. Stay away from Oscar and Papa Durabull bloodlines they sire cows with poor udders and STAY AWAY FROM EXT there is no reason to have those critters around, we had a EXT son I swore that ate flesh, I couldn't get with in 50 ft of him before he took me. that's actually how we caught him and loaded him. Pretty funny, I slipped behind the trailer gate and threw my hat in the trailer and grandpa shut him in. Worked real slick.
 

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Anonymous":1a482inb said:
Ok Angus lovers, I want your opinion. Assuming that I was going to start a herd by purchasing straightbred angus heifers, and purchasing a single bull to sire offspring to produce a herd of cows that are low on birth, moderate sized, fertile, and good disposition. What sire would you suggest the bull be out of?,

N Bar Emulation EXT. When we started using him years ago we used him for the good bulls he sired. But over time he's been shown to be a great cow producer. His daughters are fertile, have beautiful, small, neat udders. Good maternal qualities. According to the Angus Sire Summary, there are over 13,000 EXT daughters working in alomost 3,000 Angus herds around the US. I think that's an endorsement for his maternal qualities. We still have some EXT in our AI tank because our herd has so many EXT daughters. I don't say he's perfect. You may get a nutcase now and then, but he's a darn good cow maker. The steer calves will gain in the feedlot, too.
 

la4angus

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I have to agree with Frankie. EXT is probaly the best "FemaleProducer" of all time in the Angus breed. We have not had any nut cases in either his daughters or his sons. I have heard stories similar to Jakes and I don't doubt that they are true, but in our case we haven't experienced it. His daughters in our herd are very docile and bulls have not been anything but gentle.
 

sedrick_hall

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I have heard and read some good things about EXT cows. I saw an ad for EXT semen @ $50/straw. Any other maternal sires out there that are cheaper on the pocket?

SB Hall
 

Larry Sansom

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Anonymous":1qyj5vk6 said:
Ok Angus lovers, I want your opinion. Assuming that I was going to start a herd by purchasing straightbred angus heifers, and purchasing a single bull to sire offspring to produce a herd of cows that are low on birth, moderate sized, fertile, and good disposition. What sire would you suggest the bull be out of?,
6807 is NOT nor Anchor the bull to choose. Look at that negative scrotal - This WILL affect their daughters. Yes they look good, but it will come back to bite you! Lood at my web site http://www.larrysansom.com and look at the Fabron 454 pedigree. He comes from a line of cows on maternal side that are still working at 18 years, 16 years and 6 years old. Had to go back to some really old semen to get Fabron of Wye - but this is pure breeder genetics that will be a maternal giant in any pasture. Linebreeding, muscle and slick hair. Also these cattle all go back to the maternal giants of the breed Rito 2100, Shoshone Viking, Emulation 31 (as in EXT) If you want EPD's (Exagerated Progeny Deception) Don't waste your time looking. This bull is from cattle that were born in late '50's ,60's - before all the chianna etc got into the angus breed. His calves are beatting all those high EPD bulls in the real world! These were the first of the "big" Angus cattle and are exactly what the low in put Angus breeder is looking for today.
 

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"His calves are beatting all those high EPD bulls in the real world!"

Hey, Larry, before I go look at your bull, exactly how is he "beatting" all those high EPD bulls? On performance tests? In the show ring? Sales of semen? Thanks....
 

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Frankie":izpjotmj said:
"His calves are beatting all those high EPD bulls in the real world!"

Hey, Larry, before I go look at your bull, exactly how is he "beatting" all those high EPD bulls? On performance tests? In the show ring? Sales of semen? Thanks....
simple wean wt vs other bulls - AI sired bulls that are highly promoted by the Show Jocks. Put the cows on grass - knock out the props of pampered cows with creep feeders and just let nature do the culling. With high maintenance cows and the big EPD's - you MUST feed them and then the PROFIT goes to the feed company. Cows are ruminants- as soon as you start changing that basic plan, your meat looses CLA's, Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio goes out the window, vit E level in the meat is half, and the most important Profit is not as high as with grass only production cows. With the longevety in his pedigree, I'm positive his daughters will out live most anybull in the AI studs line up.
 

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Anonymous":2mycsnwe said:
what about Rito 616?
again a highly promoted, good looking bull with poor scrotal and little bando on the bottom side. The question was for maternal quality, - ie keeping daughters. That bull with his big Wean and Year EPD will have daughters that will eat you out of home just to raise the calves. Plus the potential breeding problems of a 6807 X Bando = little scrotal and thus heifer fertility problems. 6I6 and other high Yearling and Weaning epd is for Terminal use only - sell the daughters and the steers. (Best plan is to put a son or AI him to a bunch of Maternal Cows like you will get from Fabron 454!)
HINT - watch for Big Changes in the Angus breed Soon! Many of the big name bulls are having problems with their DNA test. Interesting how New Tech. is about to stop all this over stating growth on paper and questionable heritage of the breed. Ever use these big bulls and just get average calves???
 

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I think I get it now Larry. You say the smaller weaning weight and the smaller the Yearling weight the more money I will make? You have just got to love all you epd guys
 

cherokeeruby

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I'm with Larry cows have to produce on grass no matter what the breed. If my cows are weaning 550-600 lb calves with no creep and no supplements I am happy. Glad I run Brahmans we know better than to believe any Brahman EPD's. Good luck with your high maintenance cattle.
 

Larry Sansom

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ollie":mlkh14o6 said:
I think I get it now Larry. You say the smaller weaning weight and the smaller the Yearling weight the more money I will make? You have just got to love all you epd guys
No - I said the profit will be higher on using smaller cows and then Terminal cross with those big EPD bulls. Keep those big EPD heifers and you will pay the feed man better than you will your banker! The question again here was best Maternal cows. You will not get there with big EPD cows!! Also you had better pay attention to longevity or you will be forever replacing cows.
 

la4angus

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Larry Sansom":nq1yvkt0 said:
Frankie":nq1yvkt0 said:
"His calves are beatting all those high EPD bulls in the real world!"

Hey, Larry, before I go look at your bull, exactly how is he "beatting" all those high EPD bulls? On performance tests? In the show ring? Sales of semen? Thanks....
simple wean wt vs other bulls - AI sired bulls that are highly promoted by the Show Jocks. Put the cows on grass - knock out the props of pampered cows with creep feeders and just let nature do the culling. With high maintenance cows and the big EPD's - you MUST feed them and then the PROFIT goes to the feed company. Cows are ruminants- as soon as you start changing that basic plan, your meat looses CLA's, Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio goes out the window, vit E level in the meat is half, and the most important Profit is not as high as with grass only production cows. With the longevety in his pedigree, I'm positive his daughters will out live most anybull in the AI studs line up.

Larry
What are the weaning weights and at what age of your calves. Also what are their 365 day yearling wts?
 

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What makes this Octoraro Fabron 454 so great? Why should I use this bull who's WW, YW Epd's are less than 1/2 what I consider acceptable EPD's for an AI sires in my herd? He has no carcass data and I see no performance how his offspring are performing. Please convince me why this bull is so much better tham SA Neutron 377, BCC Bushwacker 41-93, bon view emualtion ext 473.
 

Larry Sansom

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la4angus - the best figures would be ratio's since every climate and management program is different. Within a herd - ratio's tell me much more than raw weaning figures. My bulls typically beat the AI bulls by 3-8 % ie a 100 ratio bull vs a 108 ratio. Wean weights are the biggest lie around - what age did you wean, creep, adjusted or actual etc...therefore I put more weight on ratio within a herd on contemporaries within a management group.
 

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larry quote
la4angus - the best figures would be ratio's since every climate and management program is different. Within a herd - ratio's tell me much more than raw weaning figures. My bulls typically beat the AI bulls by 3-8 % ie a 100 ratio bull vs a 108 ratio. Wean weights are the biggest lie around - what age did you wean, creep, adjusted or actual etc...therefore I put more weight on ratio within a herd on contemporaries within a management group.


Which AI Bulls are you currently using and what ones have you used in the past?
 

Larry Sansom

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PATB":3d45s202 said:
What makes this Octoraro Fabron 454 so great? Why should I use this bull who's WW, YW Epd's are less than 1/2 what I consider acceptable EPD's for an AI sires in my herd? He has no carcass data and I see no performance how his offspring are performing. Please convince me why this bull is so much better tham SA Neutron 377, BCC Bushwacker 41-93, bon view emualtion ext 473.
What are your breeding goals with those bulls? There is 0 linebreeding in them, there is no proven dams of 18 years old and still going to flush center with a calf at side, only show jock promoting a numbers race. I am NOT breeding for the feed lot guys. I am breeding for the cow-calf producer who is making a profit on grass only cows without high inputs. So many of the seedstock sector thrive on wasted motion, lots of comotion and really big promotion - in order to sell the illusion created by all the confusion.
 
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