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angus hereford cross

mccabe226

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ive heard that this cross makes one heck of a cow, but i was just wondering once u get that cross through out your whole herd would you be able to keep the same thing going by using a cross bull on the crossed cow, or would they lose what they had from the original cross breeding? and if anyone does this or has an angus hereford bull i would like to see what one would look like? thanks.
 

alacattleman

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that first cross is just that..cant reproduce it with out the two different breeds.. it a hassel too try and develope your own F1 baldies with out having the extra land and animals too do it..personally id prefer a good group of angus momas and a hereford bull, and selling the heifers as replacements plus the steers sell great
 

HerefordSire

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red white face is dock @ barn where I am which means someone else is pocketing the difference between the rwf and the bwf.
 

1982vett

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I wonder where you are? I'd rather have some brimmer mixed in with that angus before the hereford part is added. ;-)
 

regolith

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like ala said - first cross is a first cross. Once you get to a second cross you lose hybrid vigour and maintaining the breed ratio with crossbred bulls - waste of time in my opinion.

Farmers in NZ running stable crossbred herds have been criss-crossing for years (Jersey-type crossbreds to Holstein-Friesian and vice versa) for years with good results. It's not a first cross - you need to maintain a few purebred cattle to get those.
Theoretically a three-way cross retains most of the hybrid vigour. Cross the F1 to an unrelated breed, then the progeny back to one of the original parent breeds.
I don't know many people who are doing that.
 

dun

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regolith":16hwaywm said:
like ala said - first cross is a first cross. Once you get to a second cross you lose hybrid vigour and maintaining the breed ratio with crossbred bulls - waste of time in my opinion.

Farmers in NZ running stable crossbred herds have been criss-crossing for years (Jersey-type crossbreds to Holstein-Friesian and vice versa) for years with good results. It's not a first cross - you need to maintain a few purebred cattle to get those.
Theoretically a three-way cross retains most of the hybrid vigour. Cross the F1 to an unrelated breed, then the progeny back to one of the original parent breeds.
I don't know many people who are doing that.
That's the reasopn we have some 7/8 and more all the way to pure Red Angus. The momma makers get bred to a Gelbvieh or Hereford, all of the meat makers get bred to either a Red Angus or what ever strikes my fancy to use up out of the tank. Every year we will breed a couple of the momma makers to the Red Angus to keep a pure (or mostly Red Angus) to keep that part in the equation to create the F1s
 

mccabe226

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regolith":3bl3pzol said:
like ala said - first cross is a first cross. Once you get to a second cross you lose hybrid vigour and maintaining the breed ratio with crossbred bulls - waste of time in my opinion.

Farmers in NZ running stable crossbred herds have been criss-crossing for years (Jersey-type crossbreds to Holstein-Friesian and vice versa) for years with good results. It's not a first cross - you need to maintain a few purebred cattle to get those.
Theoretically a three-way cross retains most of the hybrid vigour. Cross the F1 to an unrelated breed, then the progeny back to one of the original parent breeds.
I don't know many people who are doing that.

how does the 3 way cross work?
 

3waycross

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mccabe226":3u9w8wpm said:
regolith":3u9w8wpm said:
like ala said - first cross is a first cross. Once you get to a second cross you lose hybrid vigour and maintaining the breed ratio with crossbred bulls - waste of time in my opinion.

Farmers in NZ running stable crossbred herds have been criss-crossing for years (Jersey-type crossbreds to Holstein-Friesian and vice versa) for years with good results. It's not a first cross - you need to maintain a few purebred cattle to get those.
Theoretically a three-way cross retains most of the hybrid vigour. Cross the F1 to an unrelated breed, then the progeny back to one of the original parent breeds.
I don't know many people who are doing that.

how does the 3 way cross work?

Don't ask me :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Nah! Just kiddin. One of the best ways to get the 3wc is to take the F1's such as Blk Baldies(Hereford/Angus) back to a Balancer bull(Gelbvieh/Angus) you maintain good heterosis and the 1/4 Continental gives you growth and muscle and the other 3/4 British gives you the carcass traits.

Or just bang those Baldies on to a Gelbvieh bull. (That probably maximizes the heterosis better than anything)
 

mccabe226

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so if i wanna keep this going in my herd and i breed the baldies to a gelb, then what would i breed those heifers too?
 

3waycross

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mccabe226":1dqki7s2 said:
so if i wanna keep this going in my herd and i breed the baldies to a gelb, then what would i breed those heifers too?

I'd take them back to a Balancer(GV/Angus) bull
 

dun

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mccabe226":2itdyf3e said:
so if i wanna keep this going in my herd and i breed the baldies to a gelb, then what would i breed those heifers too?
With a 3 way cross you breed back to one of the original breeds then keep breeding those replacements to whichever breed has the smallest percentage in the individual animal
If you started with angus hereford F1s and bred them to Gelbvieh, the next generation would be bred to either angus or Hereford but I'll use angus in this example. The offspring would have a smaller percentage Hereford so you would use a Hereford for the next cross then Gelbvieh then back to angus.
 

Ryan

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mccabe226":27hcz29f said:
how does the 3 way cross work?

Typically, the way I learned the three way cross is like this:

Breed A x Breed B = F1's. Keep these as your replacements. Generally done with breeds that are stereotypically considered more maternal (Angus - red or black, hereford, etc...).

F1's x Breed C = No replacements. Sell all these. Breed C is usually a breed that is generally consider more terminal (Char, Simm, Limm, etc...)

Of course, there are always variations of this and other rotational crossbreeding plans

Ryan
 

3waycross

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dun":1o2ryxxk said:
mccabe226":1o2ryxxk said:
so if i wanna keep this going in my herd and i breed the baldies to a gelb, then what would i breed those heifers too?
With a 3 way cross you breed back to one of the original breeds then keep breeding those replacements to whichever breed has the smallest percentage in the individual animal
If you started with angus hereford F1s and bred them to Gelbvieh, the next generation would be bred to either angus or Hereford but I'll use angus in this example. The offspring would have a smaller percentage Hereford so you would use a Hereford for the next cross then Gelbvieh then back to angus.


Not knockin Dun here but the biggest shortcoming with this method is the number of bulls and pastures you need to keep this going.

If I was gonna do it I would use the hereford/angus baldies and breed them to a blk GV bull and probably not keep replacemnts from this cross. I am starting to believe it makes more sense to buy replacments anyway for a terminal operation.


For the record tho I have seen a lot of what Dun has posted here and I like his phenatype a lot. I am just not sure most prople can keep the breeding program together as well as he does.
 

dun

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3waycross":1pka88wb said:
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/livestocksystems/DI3926.htmlhttp://www.extension.umn.edu/distri ... 26.htmlNot knockin Dun here but the biggest shortcoming with this method is the number of bulls and pastures you need to keep this going.
That's where AI comes into play.
Here's more infromaiton on crossbreeding then you would really want to know:
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distributi ... I3926.html
 

alftn

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My full blood Black Angus(reg. long ago) I used a Black Angus bulls for years.. Then used a Reg.polled hereford for 2 years, 2 different black Angus for 2 yrs each(total 4 years) Now back to a polled Hereford.After the Hereford Back to angus.. Always use the best bull you can find, ( a bull can mess up 50 calves, cows only ONE at a time..) I keep my heifers well at least most of them, Next years going to be a RED one I think, F-1 X Hereford, 50% RED. A REAL CRAP SHOOT.....
 

3waycross

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alftn":2h27px7j said:
My full blood Black Angus(reg. long ago) I used a Black Angus bulls for years.. Then used a Reg.polled hereford for 2 years, 2 different black Angus for 2 yrs each(total 4 years) Now back to a polled Hereford.After the Hereford Back to angus.. Always use the best bull you can find, ( a bull can mess up 50 calves, cows only ONE at a time..) I keep my heifers well at least most of them, Next years going to be a RED one I think, F-1 X Hereford, 50% RED. A REAL CRAP SHOOT.....

Why not breed them to a Red Gelbvieh, and watch the hererosis fly :banana: :banana: :banana:

Seriously, you have been crossing Brit to Brit for a long time. The continental will really juice those calves, and the Gelbvieh will give you lots of muscle, bone, growth, and disposition.

Just make sure whatever you use is Homo polled. There's plenty of them out there.
 

Australian

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Our black baldys are crossed with either a Brahman, South Devon or a Brahman South Devon bull (South Brahvon) We do cross them sometimes back to a Hereford or Angus. We find when we cross the black baldy with either the Angus or Hereford we get not enough vigour from that cross.By crossing with an unrelated breed gives you scope after that, to cross with whatever.
 

mnmtranching

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I've bred many a F1 baldy cow to reg Char. Get some very nice white and off white calves. The 3 way cross make some excellent stock cows to. Bred back to Black Angus.
 

aussie_cowgirl

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mnmtranching":3rmwuqik said:
I've bred many a F1 baldy cow to reg Char. Get some very nice white and off white calves. The 3 way cross make some excellent stock cows to. Bred back to Black Angus.

I've seen some majority european 3 way crossed that turned out nice. Seems the 1/4 british breeding is enough to get that required fat cover and what not
 

Australian

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cowgirl thats correct. About 1/4 is enough to keep them soft. Mostly any cross is ok but around here buyers often like an even line. If you have the numbers to match up a pen of the different shades you are ok. We save our better numbered lines (ofthe one colour)for our better market and sell the odds and ends colours at our local markets where buyers usually only buy ones and twos or three head.
I've found our best cross over Charolais has been Brahman. Then comes South Devon then Hereford. The Charbray type is smooth coated and grows much quicker then the other crosses.
 

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