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Angus folks & Genetic Condition Codes and Descriptors

HDRider

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Genetic Condition Codes and Descriptors

The American Angus Association currently recognizes the following genetic conditions:
AM - Arthrogryposis Multiplex D2 - PRKG2 Gene Mutation for Dwarfism HG - Horn Gene
CA - Contractural Arachnodactyly DM - Double Muscling HI - Heterochromia Irides
DD - Developmental Duplication DW - Dwarfism OH - Oculocutaneous Hypopigmentation
M1 - nt821 mutation for Double Muscling RD - Red Gene OS - Osteopetrosis
NH - Neuropathic Hydrocephalus WT - Wild Type Color Gene SN - Syndactyly

The following single letter descriptors appearing after a genetic condition code shall have the following meaning:
P - Refers to a "potential" carrier based on an ancestor known to carry that specific mutation.
F - Refers to an animal tested for one or more genetic conditions and determined to be "free" of that specific mutation.
C - Refers to an animal tested for one or more genetic conditions and determined to be a “carrier” of that specific mutation.
A - Refers to an animal tested for one or more genetic conditions and determined to be a carrier of two copies of that specific mutation. It may or may not exhibit the phenotype associated with that genetic condition.

The following letter designations describe cases in which there is more than one genetic condition present:
XF - Free of more than 1 genetic condition
XC - Carrier of more than 1 genetic condition
XA - Affected of more than 1 genetic condition
RTF - Recessive Trait Free (Produced 35 or more calves from daughters without a genetic defect)

NOTE: The genetic condition codes and descriptors reflect the available, reported genetic condition status of the animal. The Association does not warrant or guarantee that any animal is free of all genetic conditions, whether coded or not coded.

AVOIDANCE OF MATING CARRIER ANIMALS WITH THE SAME GENETIC CONDITION IS AN ESSENTIAL COMPONENT OF MANAGING THE INCIDENCE OF GENETIC CONDITIONS, AS IS THE STRATEGIC USE OF DNA TESTING.
 

SIMMGAL

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HDRider":ma4tscny said:
AVOIDANCE OF MATING CARRIER ANIMALS WITH THE SAME GENETIC CONDITION IS AN ESSENTIAL COMPONENT OF MANAGING THE INCIDENCE OF GENETIC CONDITIONS, AS IS THE STRATEGIC USE OF DNA TESTING.

That pretty much sums it up!
 

True Grit Farms

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I'm not a 100% that it was this bull, but one sold Saturday with the DDC gene to a commercial cattlemen for $2,600. at this sale. Myself, I wouldn't buy a bull with any known genetic conditions. I always ask myself WHY?
 

HDRider

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I have been bull shopping. One breeder claimed ignorance of genetic defects. The other said he'd not had any calf problems.

Every bull they had carried potential defect.

Seems as if many are ignoring the situation.
 

SIMMGAL

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HDRider":2y9i8xil said:
Seems as if many are ignoring the situation.

Seems to be that way around here too, unfortunately. I was explaining the defects to one of my close friends who is just getting started in the cattle world. He had no idea. Personally the potential loss is too much for me to want to play with fire.
 

Luckiamute

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I exclusively use AI and won't use any bull that is a carrier or potential carrier of any known genetic defect or condition. I know that most of the semen companies have eliminated bulls with known defects, but there are still a few out there where semen sales continue. If I was in the market for a bull, I would not purchase one that was a carrier or potential carrier. Why take any chances and prolong these issues within this or any breed.
 

jscunn

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Luckiamute,

Well said. I agree 100%. Never sold one that was a carrier for any known genetic defect. However if I was a guy that never kept any females and all calves were sold at weaning I would consider using a bull with a non-lethal defect. (DDP) Since we sell some replacement females and a few bulls I will not use carriers on any cows. We do have one cow that is AMC, all of her calves have been sold as freezer beef so far.
 

Boot Jack Bulls

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Luckiamute":unkp3fib said:
I exclusively use AI and won't use any bull that is a carrier or potential carrier of any known genetic defect or condition. I know that most of the semen companies have eliminated bulls with known defects, but there are still a few out there where semen sales continue. If I was in the market for a bull, I would not purchase one that was a carrier or potential carrier. Why take any chances and prolong these issues within this or any breed.
Exactly!!!
 

Margonme

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Acknowledging that genetic aberrations are undesirable is important but they are not the bubonic plague. Be aware! And breed around them.

As the Bible says: There will be wars and rumors of wars.

As Inyati use to say: There will be genetic defects and rumors of genetic defects.

Edited to add: avoid saying you will not buy a bull with a genetic defect. Every organism that has ever existed had genetic defects. It goes with being a carbon unit.

Say it like this: You will not buy or promote a bull with a KNOWN genetic defect.
 

bse

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If the animal even has P for Potential I don't want it, figure if the owner cared it would be cleaned.
If everybody keeps using these LBW bulls on cows there replacements will get worse and worse in my opinion.
I'd never starve a cow just to have a small calf.
If you want to grow that calf after birth and inflate numbers, just feed momma then you can say the calves have never been on creep feed, which is true. Done all the time!!!!
 

Margonme

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bse":xlpo8wfy said:
If the animal even has P for Potential I don't want it, figure if the owner cared it would be cleaned.
If everybody keeps using these LBW bulls on cows there replacements will get worse and worse in my opinion.
I'd never starve a cow just to have a small calf.
If you want to grow that calf after birth and inflate numbers, just feed momma then you can say the calves have never been on creep feed, which is true. Done all the time!!!!

Barry: I am moving away from the LBW bulls. It is nice to make calving easy but as you say, there is not a lot of growth in most of them.
 

TCRanch

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Margonme":33ndsvlc said:
bse":33ndsvlc said:
If the animal even has P for Potential I don't want it, figure if the owner cared it would be cleaned.
If everybody keeps using these LBW bulls on cows there replacements will get worse and worse in my opinion.
I'd never starve a cow just to have a small calf.
If you want to grow that calf after birth and inflate numbers, just feed momma then you can say the calves have never been on creep feed, which is true. Done all the time!!!!

Barry: I am moving away from the LBW bulls. It is nice to make calving easy but as you say, there is not a lot of growth in most of them.

And yet I just bought 2 calving ease bulls (+16 & +14), one with a very low birth weight (prob 68 lbs) for my heifers. I'd rather have small, LIVE calves & heifers and let the mamas grow 'em. We don't creep but cube year 'round (minuscule amount during peak grazing) so all the calves are already eating them by the time we wean. Average wean weight at 6 months is 580 - 650 but I have a couple of cows that will wean over 800 lbs, all bred by LBW calving ease bulls. Average BCS of my cows is a good 6, some 7, and I have to admit we have a 9 (who calves like clockwork). Just my :2cents:

And no, we don't purchase bulls with a known genetic defect.
 

jscunn

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BSE,
AMEN about the replacements. That big strapping calf at birth (calved unassisted) is nearly always that big strapping calf at weaning. Those replacement heifers that are above avg for bw, ww, and yw in terms of actual weight always make really nice broody cows with tons of volume. I thought I was the only guy using Angus bulls with a +4 BW EPD..
 

bse

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I kept heifers out of a few different BW bulls some 3.5 some 2 and some negative, you can tell which is which. The ones with some BW are just better! I know if your selling bulls all anyone wants is LBW, folks have been brainwashed in my opinion. My cleanup bull for cows is -4 ced and 4.1 BW.
 

Son of Butch

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True Grit Farms":2xfm0psd said:
one sold Saturday with the DDC gene to a commercial cattlemen for $2,600. at this sale.
Myself, I wouldn't buy a bull with any known genetic conditions. I always ask myself WHY?
I lose respect for any "breeders" that sell known carriers as breeding stock as opposed to culling.
I understand they want to make money and let the buyer beware ect. But that doesn't mean I have to respect them.
 

cotton1

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HDRider-check PM sir

I would stay away from anything that has known birth defects. In today's world you can buy a great improvement, or a complete disaster for $20 a pop. If the genetic problems are laid out for you, then the responsibility is yours as the breeder. Just like used cars, there are cattlemen willing to push any old clunker on you if they put a few bucks in their pocket.

Investigate the pedigrees of the bulls you are interested in buying. If there are a lot of genetic problems in any segment of that pedigree, run away fast would be my suggestion. Identify the bulls in your breed that have high accuracy, and breed true without genetic problems and find progeny off of those criteria as much as is reasonably possible.

The right bull is out there, you just have to find him. Getting the grain from the chaff as far as EPDs and actual performance data, and matching up the genetic requirements and phenotype is a big chore but worth the effort if you find what you need and want.

I hope you find a trouble free bull myself.

Cotton1
 

talltimber

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My old bull is a 3.3 bw (projected) and I don't have any trouble with the old cows to speak of. I bought a lbw for the heifers though, mainly because the old bull would ride them down. He's heavy on a cow. Otherwise I wouldn't be scared to put him on heifers too. But, due to having to go on a projected number, idk what he actually would be. He may not be a 3.3 in reality.
 

Commercialfarmer

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How many breeders are actually testing for all possible genetic defects?

How many are inbreeding their herd to look for those defects slipping under the cover of not having a test or a name? If you can't line breed your herd multiple times over without a defective or poor doing calf as a result, you are in fact selling defective cattle.

Maybe I'm wrong, but unless you are doing the above, I think it's hypocritical to throw mud at someone else who is being honest in their reporting of such defects.

:pop:
 

Lucky_P

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The 'lethal' (and potentially lethal) conditions... sure, I'm avoiding them. AM/NH/CA/DD seem to be most widely distributed - and most commonly tested for - but the others are out there, often sliding along for generations, undetected - unless breeders are testing for them.

Coat color conditions, like Red or Wild-Type color... probably would merit minor consideration, if any, in my herd... though with a majority of my cows being red-carriers, a red-factor Angus bull would throw some red calves... but I've not backed away from usinga number of hetero-black Simmental and Shorthorn sires...

There are a couple of Angus bulls that are carriers of the Double Muscling gene that I'm still toying with the idea of using. Even the carrier animals seem to have increased muscle expression. But if I retained heifers by those sires, I'd either need to test them, or make certain that later bull selections were not DM carriers.
 

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