Angus EPD question

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Cattleman200

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I have located an Angus bull that has a truly outstanding set of EPD`s. Possibly the best overall package in the breed. Only one area that he lacks in and that is the EN EPD. What I would like to know is how much emphasis is placed on this EPD vs. the rest of the EPD package? Also, is there a trend in high performance animals in the Angus breed in that most of them do in fact have a low EN EPD?

Im not looking to buy this bull. I just plan on using him on a few females. His semen is not on the open market. I would rather not identify this bull on the post so please dont ask. I will tell you he is higher across the board that ANY AI bull anywhere, his calves look really good too and my partner I am hoping to get a head start on other breeders by using him. Any information about my questions would be appreciated.Thanks, Bill

Circle H Ranch
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Brandonm2

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IF he has the highest Milk EPD in the Angus breed beware. IF you combine that with extremely high yearling wt and it is no wonder that $EN is poor.
 

Badlands

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It is a given that if milk and MW EPD are high, $EN will fail. If MW isn't proven, then high YW is the substitute.

It is an impossibility to find a high milk, high growth, high MW bull with high $EN. If is numerically and biologically impossible.

High growth resulting in larger cows coupled with high milk does have a cost. You can't get it for nothing.

Badlands
 

DOC HARRIS

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Cattleman200":2ue9gcpk said:
I have located an Angus bull that has a truly outstanding set of EPD`s. Possibly the best overall package in the breed. Only one area that he lacks in and that is the EN EPD. What I would like to know is how much emphasis is placed on this EPD vs. the rest of the EPD package? Also, is there a trend in high performance animals in the Angus breed in that most of them do in fact have a low EN EPD?

Im not looking to buy this bull. I just plan on using him on a few females. His semen is not on the open market. I would rather not identify this bull on the post so please dont ask. I will tell you he is higher across the board that ANY AI bull anywhere, his calves look really good too and my partner I am hoping to get a head start on other breeders by using him. Any information about my questions would be appreciated.Thanks, Bill

Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com
Bill-
Your saying that this bull has a ". . .truly outstanding set of EPD's" strikes an alarm bell to me. "Outstanding" can mean several things, among which could be too LOW a BW, along with too high Milking numbers. Also, if the BW is low and the YW is over 100 - while that is exceptional Growth EPD,s, something, somewhere in there has to be a negative, and usually the cow size is either too small, making the mating suspect for too big a calf, - or - if the cow size is acceptable for that size of a potentially BIG calf, that might be why the $EN is low. Cow Energy Value ($EN) expressed in dollars savings per cow per year, assesses differences in cow energy requirements as an expected dollar savings difference in daughters of sires. A larger value is more favorable when comparing two animals (more animals saved on feed energy expenses). Components for computing the cow $EN savings difference include lactation energy requirements and energy costs associated with differences in mature cow size. There is that "Cow Size" subject again, which cycles back to increased cow maintenance costs. If, in fact, there is a trend of lower $EN EPD's , it could portend the ever-increasing heavier cow size tendency resulting in higher and higher maintenance costs. If you think about it, - if we breed our producing cows in 2007 to bulls with across-the-board EPD's, his replacement calves won't have THEIR calves old enough to analyse until 2010 or 2011. By that time, if the cows are genetically engineered to weigh 1500+ lbs, your feed costs, and all other relative expenses are eating you out of business.

Taken all in all, 1200-1300 lb, breeders are more profitable in the long run, and considering the cost of supplemental feed (Corn, etc.), we certainly don't need cows that weigh 300-600 lbs MORE than that to feed and house.

THAT is the significance of the $EN figure in considering bull selection.

DOC HARRIS
 
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Cattleman200

Cattleman200

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Bill,

How many calves does he have on the ground?

What is his EN EPD?(it would almost be a miracle if that could be used for ID)

I am not sure but it would be less than 100 because he has only been used in 2 herds that I know of at this time. I do know they look very good. I would rather not give his $EN value at this time but its very low. I guess its because his weaning , yearling and milk are so high based on what everyone has posted. What Im really pondering is does that $EN value carry more weight selling offspring out of him than a set of tremendous growth EPD`s?

Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com
 

Aero

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here is the most basic explanation of $EN

high demands = low $EN
low demands = high $EN

demands come from Milk, growth, and mature size of the animals.

if the bull has high milk and growth you will not escape a very low $EN. [and if you have high growth, you also wont escape large mature sizes (and higher feed costs for upkeep)]
 

Aero

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Cattleman200":3e38tl8t said:
What Im really pondering is does that $EN value carry more weight selling offspring out of him than a set of tremendous growth EPD`s?

only if your buyer is a pretty unique fellow and is retaining females.

90%+ of the folks out there dont understand what $EN is but they sure know about growth.
 

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