Angus CED/BW for Cows

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dbird33

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I'm curious where others draw the line on a bull purchase regarding High BW and Low CED. I assume the bull will be used on cows that have had at least one calf.

I ask this because I feel like some of my better bull calves will not be marketable to local commercial cattlemen because they are high BW and low CED.
 

Rydero

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I run commercial cattle. As far as BW goes I probably wouldn't go over 90 for an Angus. I like my bulls bred true to their breed. If I want something w more punch or bigger BW I'd buy a breed that has it built in. Personal preference - just think I'll get more consistency and performance for less money that way. Same deal for CED - should be close to breed average or I wouldn't be interested.
 

bse

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dbird33 said:
I'm curious where others draw the line on a bull purchase regarding High BW and Low CED. I assume the bull will be used on cows that have had at least one calf.

I ask this because I feel like some of my better bull calves will not be marketable to local commercial cattlemen because they are high BW and low CED.

If your selling bulls anymore you better be high CED low BW.
I do believe folks are giving up performance,
I try not to use any bulls on mature cows that would be heifer bulls, I do sometimes.
0 CED 4 BW doesn't bother me at all
 

Son of Butch

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ced 7 and bw 1.3 is breed average for Angus.

ced 11 and bw -.2 is top 20%
ced 5 and bw 2.0 is 65 percentile.
>5 ced and < 2.0 bw is bottom 1/3 of the breed and beyond the comfort zone of the average buyer.

Low accuracy epds is the reason many fear going below breed average when bull buying.
IF the accuracy is only .50 then it's a 50/50 chance the epd is wrong and it's human nature to prefer
to error on the side of caution when assessing risks associated with calving.

We need to look at it from the customers point of view and he's thinking... Why buy trouble?
 
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dbird33

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The thoughts so far confirm what I've seen in talking with people in this area. The bull calves I'm referring to still need an AGS before i decide to steer them, but they are in the -1 to -5 CED range and 3.5 -4.5 BW. I have a couple cows and heifers that got killed on their genomics test recently. One is a -13 CED now. I have not seen those numbers proven out in the real world though.
 

Midtenn

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I have angus bulls with 0 to -5 ced and bw as high as 5 for use as TERMINAL on my commercial herd. I've found that at 50% or less accuracy the true numbers tend to be closer to breed average than the numbers would lead to beleive. Even if the numbers were true, these size calves are still not as big as most true terminal breeds such as charlois so to me I'm getting terminal with black hide which is a plus. Keep in mind I'm not you're average customer. The last two bulls I bought for $1600 and $2000 at sales where the average was $3500. Most buyers are scared to death of using bulls with these numbers so don't count on selling them for much.

As far as heifers, My home raised heifer bull is ced 2 and bw 2.1. I wouldn't buy a heifer bull with those numbers but I raised him and he only weighed 65, didn't grow extremely fast. Also knew the history of his pedigree so felt comfortable using him. The genomic test is what messed his numbers up. He has worked out very well for us as a heifer bull. Haven't pulled one yet and calves come around the same size as the AI'd sired calves (right answer and aviator).

When you think about it, if the numbers were always exactly correct with 100% accuracy, the difference between a -1 and +5 bw is SIX POUNDS.
 
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dbird33

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Midtenn said:
I have angus bulls with 0 to -5 ced and bw as high as 5 for use as TERMINAL on my commercial herd. I've found that at 50% or less accuracy the true numbers tend to be closer to breed average than the numbers would lead to beleive. Even if the numbers were true, these size calves are still not as big as most true terminal breeds such as charlois so to me I'm getting terminal with black hide which is a plus. Keep in mind I'm not you're average customer. The last two bulls I bought for $1600 and $2000 at sales where the average was $3500. Most buyers are scared to death of using bulls with these numbers so don't count on selling them for much.

As far as heifers, My home raised heifer bull is ced 2 and bw 2.1. I wouldn't buy a heifer bull with those numbers but I raised him and he only weighed 65, didn't grow extremely fast. Also knew the history of his pedigree so felt comfortable using him. The genomic test is what messed his numbers up. He has worked out very well for us as a heifer bull. Haven't pulled one yet and calves come around the same size as the AI'd sired calves (right answer and aviator).

When you think about it, if the numbers were always exactly correct with 100% accuracy, the difference between a -1 and +5 bw is SIX POUNDS.

I look at things similarly to you. Two of my three herd bulls are -1 CED and 4BW. There are some big Angus seed stock operations in my area that are preaching heavier bw's to any commercial cattleman that will listen, and it seems like the general perception is starting to change a little. I also know that most of the calves I've lost due to weather were light (50's) and just never seem like they catch up. It feels like the 75-90lb calves just do better for me.
 

Midtenn

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ideally every calf would be 80 pounds. Some will come bigger than 90 and I notice sometimes those ones seem a little slower to get going. I guess birthing is harder on them. Too big/too small both can have issues.
 

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