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Angus calving ease

crats

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I worked for a vet for 7 years in AR. At the time there were a lot of farmers trying to improve there heard with Angus bulls. And there were a lot of calving problems not always with heifers calves were averaging about 75lb. some good cows some bad, bigger cows bigger calves. I run commercial limo cattle now and my calves are averaging about 55lb. I need to replace my heard sire. We have ben very happy with our limo sire we have good calves that sell as good as any commercial angus in our area. my husband wants to go with a Angus sire. What do you think? :? AT what weight is a angus calf concerded big? :?
 

Frankie

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crats":1z6s6o38 said:
I worked for a vet for 7 years in AR. At the time there were a lot of farmers trying to improve there heard with Angus bulls. And there were a lot of calving problems not always with heifers calves were averaging about 75lb. some good cows some bad, bigger cows bigger calves. I run commercial limo cattle now and my calves are averaging about 55lb. I need to replace my heard sire. We have ben very happy with our limo sire we have good calves that sell as good as any commercial angus in our area. my husband wants to go with a Angus sire. What do you think? :? AT what weight is a angus calf concerded big? :?

First: are you actually weighing with a scale or a foot tape....or with your eye?

In my opinion if your heifers have problems delivering a 75 lb calf, you have a heifer problem, not a bull or breed problem.

From a purebred standpoint, I consider a 90 actual birthweight as too heavy. Not because my cows have problems with delivering that heavy a calf, but because potential commercial bull buyers tend to shy away from bulls with higher birthweights.

From a practical standpoint, a calf weighing 55 lbs at birth will need to gain 25 more pounds in six months to wean at the same weight as a calf that is born weighing 80 lbs. That's a lot of pounds to make up.

Lastly, what makes you think the next black Limousin bull will give you all 55 lb calves?
 

crats

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Why would so many of these cows have problems with calving? different cows different bulls.I think my cows would do better with limo bulls from experience I have had. working with a vet i only saw things when they went bad.
 

dun

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crats":2ow7wrmo said:
Why would so many of these cows have problems with calving? different cows different bulls.I think my cows would do better with limo bulls from experience I have had. working with a vet i only saw things when they went bad.

If the calves only weighed 75 pounds there would be a couple of reasons. Square blocky calves, lousey calving genetics in the cows, over feeding of the cows. A lot of problems are laid at the feet of the bull when it should be laid at the pelvis of the cow
 

Frankie

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crats":38xr39w3 said:
Why would so many of these cows have problems with calving? different cows different bulls.I think my cows would do better with limo bulls from experience I have had. working with a vet i only saw things when they went bad.

All Limmi buls aren't the same, as all Angus aren't the same. I don't know why the cows had problems. As you said, working for the vet you saw a lot of problems. The heifers might not have been grown out well. Maybe they were run on wheat while they were bred. Maybe the bull was a bad fit. How many actually had problems calving? Out of how many that didn't have problems? Until you can answer those questions, you're only guessing.

Do you know the breeding of the bull you're running now? Can you get another of similar breeding? Do you understand EPDs?

They're your cows; IMO, you should use whatever bull you feel comfortable with.

Here's a link to some MARC data that shows in their research Angus is one of the easiest calving beef breeds.

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... s-134.html
 

Angus In Texas

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I like to keep my actual BW between 70 and 80 if at all possible. 85 being the max high end and 60 on the low end. However, often times, mother nature plays a huge role as well as your feeding habits, on the actual BW of your calves. Try not to feed too much protein during the final 3 months of pregnancy thus helping to keep the BW down. Look across the country at areas where natural grasses are higher in protein and on the average the BW's are considerably higher than in parts where grasses lack the protein content.

Like Frankie said, a calf that weighs 25 lbs less at birth will also hurt you at weaning more often than not. The key is to find a BW that will work with your cows and still have top end room to play just in case. Or be prepared to pull some calves.
 

twabscs

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crats":25aawx8i said:
I worked for a vet for 7 years in AR.

Um, I think you need to rethink your logic. Of course the vet sees lots of calving problems. I don't call the vent when the 99% of my cows calve without any problems. I have five registered angus bulls, four black and one red, and my average calf size is around 75 pounds.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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As someone else hinted to - I don't think you actually KNOW the weight of the calves - unless you are running miniature cows. Do you know the actual weight of your COWS/HEIFERS?
The 7 years you were with a vet, might have been in an area that was heavily Angus breeding - so, yes, most of your calving calls would have been Angus calves. But as asked previously, at what %?
If you HAVE to compare BREED to BREED (which is not a proper thing to do) Angus is the known calving ease sire & Limousin has been the known hard calving sire.
Now, there are a lot of Angus that are NOT CE sires, and I'm sure there are a lot of Limo sires that ARE CE sires, but if I was to blind pick a bull, I sure would use Angus over Limo for heifers!
AND I'M A SIMMENTAL BREEDER.
ANY heifer worth her salt should be able to handle a 75# calf, without any difficulty.
 

goodbeef

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If you dont have mini's i dont know how anyone could average a 55 lb calf. I would think it would be hard to find many producers (if they scale every calf) that would average 75lbs. I agree with everyone else, if you have heifers that won't deliver a 75lb calf with no assistance, you have a heifer problem, not a bull problem. If you are REALLY getting 55lb calves and then keeping your own replacements, and do that for generation after generation, i can see how you may have some heifers that would have difficulty. CE and MCE tend to be alittle antaganistic.
 

greenwillowhereford II

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I'm a Hereford breeder and like Simme Valley, I'd use an Angus over a limi for heifers. That's not to insult the limi breeders, but the old time red one with the enormous rump did present a few problems for my kinfolk years ago. The calves would hang on the hip, no kidding. Once they hit the ground they sure made nice ones though.

More to the point, I have no desire to own heifers that can't calve a 75# calf. I have no desire for my calves to average 55#. Most of the time, the deficit at weaning versus the 80# calf is going to be closer to 100#. There are exceptions, but that's what they are.

So far this year, we're averaging 79#, with a low of 75#, and a high of 83#.
 

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