angus bw epd's

[clem]

:? What would be an acceptable angus bw epd range for medium frame black baldie heifers? All replies appreciated. Thanks, Clem.

 

[Frankie]

:? What would be an acceptable angus bw epd range for medium frame black baldie heifers? All replies appreciated. Thanks, Clem.

The Angus Assn recommends using a BW EPD of less than 3 on first calf Angus heifers. Since you'll be getting some heterosis, I'd use something smaller than that. And it depends on the breeding of the heifers. Are the black Angus cross or a black Continental cross? How big are they? How old are they? Will you be there when they calve or will they be on pasture somewhere?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

:? What would be an acceptable angus bw epd range for medium frame black baldie heifers? All replies appreciated. Thanks, Clem.

Clem -

The answer to your question, as with almost everything else, is more involved and extensive than just a simple few word answer. I would suggest that you contact the American Angus Association for a more complete understanding of the reasons for all the particulars involving the different traits and characteristics management technics necessary for a successful operation.

To give you a simple answer to your question, assuming that your heifers are in the range of Frame Score 4.5 - 5 or 5.5, I would say the BW EPD for Bulls to be used for first calf heifers would be in a range from -2.0 to +1.5, considerating that the bull has a reasonably high Accuracy number (1.0 being as high as they go). An untested young Bull can have all kinds of accolades and recommendations, but because he has no calves by which to guage his abilities, his EPD's will be Interim, or have an "I" preceding the EPD number, which is an estimate. You can use this as an idea of what his actual EPD would or will be in the future, but it is only a guess - educated guess perhaps, but a guess nevertheless.

The potential sire should have shoulders which are not so wide, or 'open', so as to make the calving by the heifers more easily accomplished. After the first calf, they can tolerate BW EPD's higher than when they are a 'first-calf' heifer. My personal preference is to not have "MILK" EPD's of the Sire be higher than +22 - +25, preferably lower. I will probably get a rash of arguments on that, but I am adament about it for a variety of reasons, which I won't elaborate on today.

I hope this helps you, Clem.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Angus Guy]

Doc I am in total agreement with you on the milk EPD. On the bw I will disagee to a certain extent. I have observed for over 20yr that bw has so many other factors contributing to it that the bulls EPD is only a small part of the equation. The other factors I am talking about is the cows bw, what kind of feed ration was the hiefer on, and the growing conditions she had to deal while gestating ( real cold, muddy, mild temps and the like). My feeling is the other factors will outwiegh offset the bulls EPD. On my own herd I will use bw EPD of 1-3 and once in a while 3.5.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Doc I am in total agreement with you on the milk EPD. On the bw I will disagee to a certain extent. I have observed for over 20yr that bw has so many other factors contributing to it that the bulls EPD is only a small part of the equation. The other factors I am talking about is the cows bw, what kind of feed ration was the hiefer on, and the growing conditions she had to deal while gestating ( real cold, muddy, mild temps and the like). My feeling is the other factors will outwiegh offset the bulls EPD. On my own herd I will use bw EPD of 1-3 and once in a while 3.5.

Angus Guy - I agree with your extended reasoning on BW, but his question was restricted and specific, so I addressed the smaller numbers accordingly. Instead of the EPD numbers being a template, they are a "step UP" with each succeeding Generation, and it is tantamount to Exponential increases to a point of uncontrollability. I am afraid that the average breeder is caught in the 'web' of breeding "By the Numbers", and not being aware of the exacerbating consequences. I choose to err on the side of conservatism.

DOC HARRIS

 

[clem]

You guys seem to have given sound advice, and I appreciate the other variables you have given to consider. Thanks for the replies, Clem

 

[rgv]

I agree on the ooutside factors - strictly on genetics.
To what degree does the cow's BW influence BW - 50%?

 

[Frankie]

I agree on the ooutside factors - strictly on genetics.
To what degree does the cow's BW influence BW - 50%?

The cow's genetics are half the calf. But her own BW and the calf's BW can be affected by management. If she has a 90 lb BW herself, but her dam was someone's show heifer and fed a lot, it might be misleading. EPDs are a more reliable indicator than actual weights because they take the management factor out.

 

[lakading]

I agree on the ooutside factors - strictly on genetics.
To what degree does the cow's BW influence BW - 50%?

The cow's genetics are half the calf. But her own BW and the calf's BW can be affected by management. If she has a 90 lb BW herself, but her dam was someone's show heifer and fed a lot, it might be misleading. EPDs are a more reliable indicator than actual weights because they take the management factor out.

Birth Weight is only 40% heritable and only 1/2 of that comes from the bull.

Therefore, I'd feel comfortable using just about any angus bull. If you want more "peace of mind" I'd recommend you use any angus sire with a +3.0 BW EPD or lower and an accuracy over .85.