I'm curious if any of the Black Angus breeders out there -- or anyone else for that matter -- have used either K Bar D Joe Canada 18Y or Ponca Creek Pepper. I've considered using Joe Canada (available through Universal Semen Sales) for a couple of years. Have seen some of his calves and they look nice -- wide bodies, well muscled, grow well. My concern with him is his poor Heifer Pregnancy EPD, though I know there are very successful bulls out there with poor HP EPDs. Ponca Creek Pepper (available through Origen) intrigues me because he has a strong material pedigree with four generations of Pathfinder cows on the dam side and his high growth EPDs. My issues with him are he's very high in Milk EPD and has a bad $EN value. Just curious what people who might have used either of these thought of their calves and what types of cows you used them on and what your goals were in choosing these bulls.