Angus Breeder

[kenny thomas]

This fall I decided I was going to buy 10 700-800 lb good looking black calves. I have bought several and am selling them as fast as I get them. I know the background of each calf and give 800-1000 each. Selling them for $1,250 within a week. Many small operations don't have the knowledge or the confidence to go to a sale and buy a bull. Do I guarantee? I guarantee them to be healthy and tell each buyer that the calves aren't old enough yet but they should have a BSE done later. I doubt any will ever see a vet in their lifetime and most will never be in a head chute again. I make a little money, the customer is happy.

 

[Bright Raven]

RE: Venues For Selling Bulls

The best venue for selling bulls that I am aware of is the Farm Fest format at Ozark Empire Fairgrounds in Springfield MO. If I were not calving, I would be there right now.

The seller reserves stalls at the facilities on the grounds. It is a fair atmosphere. Lots of people go through and look at the bulls. There is no auction. You set a price and the buyers circulate around the stalls and make their selection.

All the bulls I have sent out there sold the first day. Fire Sweep does an absolutely outstanding job as a salesperson.

It started yesterday and my bull, Black Bart, sold the opening day. Fire Sweep said he generated a lot of interest. Remember though: to present the bulls in this format requires halter broke bulls.

 

[Bright Raven]

This fall I decided I was going to buy 10 700-800 lb good looking black calves. I have bought several and am selling them as fast as I get them. I know the background of each calf and give 800-1000 each. Selling them for $1,250 within a week. Many small operations don't have the knowledge or the confidence to go to a sale and buy a bull. Do I guarantee? I guarantee them to be healthy and tell each buyer that the calves aren't old enough yet but they should have a BSE done later. I doubt any will ever see a vet in their lifetime and most will never be in a head chute again. I make a little money, the customer is happy.

This is a significant post. I see a lot of bulls sold like that. Most producers in Kentucky are not like the folks on this forum. All they want is a cheap bull that throws a calf. I hate to say it but as a member of a county cattleman board, I am not in the least impressed with 50 % of the cattle producers.

 

[True Grit Farms]

So having only 45 cows doesn't make you a cow man? But having 2000 makes you worthy of selling bulls? Get real! Having the ability to make good breeding decisions is a gift in my opinion, and breeding for bulls to improves others herds falls under that gift. Makes no difference how many head you run. Sometimes the stuff that you type here is unbelievable.

A person with 45 cows is a cow man, a person with 2000 knows cows and knows what works and what doesn't. Experience is the mother of wisdom. Breeding decisions is a gift? That's about the stupidest thing I've ever read on a breeding topic, at least your the first one to post that. Anyone that can read can make good breeding decisions. We all have access to the same animals through the use of AI and ET. Those with the most can afford to cull the most and end up with the best animals. But that requires wisdom and an eye for cattle, not a gift. I'll add, one of the most knowledgeable cow man on this site probably has less than 45 cows, he's definitely gifted, if you don't believe it just ask him.

Life is what you make it and that goes for the vocation of animal husbandry just like it does for the attitude a person cultivates.

I suppose if there were Bovine Gods seated on Mount Olympus, they might "gift" someone the Art of Breeding.

Breeding is an Art which is best seasoned with a good foundation in the fundamentals of genetics, anatomy, morphology and general animal science.

What are cattle? They are Biological Units. The best breeders are going to have a good foundation in biology.

Explain this a little more for me please. Common sense says you don't breed Broadway to big cows and expect anything different than what you got. And breeding baldie bulls to baldie cows with excessive white leads to calves with excessive white. Nothing biological about any of that. The one common denominator that I see with the elite breeders is record keeping, and you have that down pat.

 

[True Grit Farms]

This fall I decided I was going to buy 10 700-800 lb good looking black calves. I have bought several and am selling them as fast as I get them. I know the background of each calf and give 800-1000 each. Selling them for $1,250 within a week. Many small operations don't have the knowledge or the confidence to go to a sale and buy a bull. Do I guarantee? I guarantee them to be healthy and tell each buyer that the calves aren't old enough yet but they should have a BSE done later. I doubt any will ever see a vet in their lifetime and most will never be in a head chute again. I make a little money, the customer is happy.

This is a significant post. I see a lot of bulls sold like that. Most producers in Kentucky are not like the folks on this forum. All they want is a cheap bull that throws a calf. I hate to say it but as a member of a county cattleman board, I am not in the least impressed with 50 % of the cattle producers.

A live calf is a cattlemens main goal, everything else is a bonus.

 

[Bright Raven]

A person with 45 cows is a cow man, a person with 2000 knows cows and knows what works and what doesn't. Experience is the mother of wisdom. Breeding decisions is a gift? That's about the stupidest thing I've ever read on a breeding topic, at least your the first one to post that. Anyone that can read can make good breeding decisions. We all have access to the same animals through the use of AI and ET. Those with the most can afford to cull the most and end up with the best animals. But that requires wisdom and an eye for cattle, not a gift. I'll add, one of the most knowledgeable cow man on this site probably has less than 45 cows, he's definitely gifted, if you don't believe it just ask him.

Life is what you make it and that goes for the vocation of animal husbandry just like it does for the attitude a person cultivates.

I suppose if there were Bovine Gods seated on Mount Olympus, they might "gift" someone the Art of Breeding.

Breeding is an Art which is best seasoned with a good foundation in the fundamentals of genetics, anatomy, morphology and general animal science.

What are cattle? They are Biological Units. The best breeders are going to have a good foundation in biology.

Explain this a little more for me please. Common sense says you don't breed Broadway to big cows and expect anything different than what you got. And breeding baldie bulls to baldie cows with excessive white leads to calves with excessive white. Nothing biological about any of that. The one common denominator that I see with the elite breeders is record keeping, and you have that down pat.

Well, if you are impressed with record keeping, dare I say you are looking at the light end of the log! It is vital but does not require skill or knowledge.

Regarding, Broadway- I will not use him in my environment again!!!

Breeding is an Art but in today's market of AI AND ET that art requires a knowledge of biology. Breeding is a function of reproductive physiology. Dr. Spears is one of the industry's premier embryo transfer scientist. I took embryology under him 40 years ago. The course was taught like a graduate level reproductive physiology course. Selection is based on the science of genetics - which covers all aspects of phenotype and genotype. Understanding the anatomy of a Bovine is fundamental. Biology is the same science used in veterinarian medicine.

I hear some good breeders making statements that are contrary to the science of genetics. In most cases, it does not adversely affect their goals.

My point is that biology is the very foundation of animal husbandry. Period.

 

[Bestoutwest]

If our UGA bull tests have more than 70 bulls you need to be there. Sometimes you can make a few $hundred dollars buying tested young bulls that are ready for service. Last year a Charolais, 3 red Angus and 2 Hereford bulls sold for less than slaughter prices.

I often wonder at a sale like the Bulls of the Bluegrass why those last tier bulls sell at slaughter prices.

My assumption is that there are issues that those bulls have that circulate during the viewing prior to the sale. The last bulls are the weakest bulls in the sale but it is hard to explain that they sell for slaughter prices.

I have noticed this, there are cattle placed in all those big sales that have issues. There is a reason someone is selling them. For example, Fire Sweep and I bought a beautiful second calf cow in the early spring at a big sale in Springfield. It was too good to be true. She lost the calf - premature. Which is what happened to her first calf. I AI bred her while I was there when Fire Sweep went to Nationals. She only held that pregnancy for 60 days. They bull bred her and she lost that pregnancy. She is now going to slaughter.

I would much prefer to buy off the farm and have a direct connection to the seller.

Out of curiosity did the breeder treat you well or are you on your own?

 

[Bright Raven]

If our UGA bull tests have more than 70 bulls you need to be there. Sometimes you can make a few $hundred dollars buying tested young bulls that are ready for service. Last year a Charolais, 3 red Angus and 2 Hereford bulls sold for less than slaughter prices.

I often wonder at a sale like the Bulls of the Bluegrass why those last tier bulls sell at slaughter prices.

My assumption is that there are issues that those bulls have that circulate during the viewing prior to the sale. The last bulls are the weakest bulls in the sale but it is hard to explain that they sell for slaughter prices.

I have noticed this, there are cattle placed in all those big sales that have issues. There is a reason someone is selling them. For example, Fire Sweep and I bought a beautiful second calf cow in the early spring at a big sale in Springfield. It was too good to be true. She lost the calf - premature. Which is what happened to her first calf. I AI bred her while I was there when Fire Sweep went to Nationals. She only held that pregnancy for 60 days. They bull bred her and she lost that pregnancy. She is now going to slaughter.

I would much prefer to buy off the farm and have a direct connection to the seller.

Out of curiosity did the breeder treat you well or are you on your own?

Fire Sweep has talked to the previous owner. He is ready to stand behind the cow.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Life is what you make it and that goes for the vocation of animal husbandry just like it does for the attitude a person cultivates.

I suppose if there were Bovine Gods seated on Mount Olympus, they might "gift" someone the Art of Breeding.

Breeding is an Art which is best seasoned with a good foundation in the fundamentals of genetics, anatomy, morphology and general animal science.

What are cattle? They are Biological Units. The best breeders are going to have a good foundation in biology.

Explain this a little more for me please. Common sense says you don't breed Broadway to big cows and expect anything different than what you got. And breeding baldie bulls to baldie cows with excessive white leads to calves with excessive white. Nothing biological about any of that. The one common denominator that I see with the elite breeders is record keeping, and you have that down pat.

Well, if you are impressed with record keeping, dare I say you are looking at the light end of the log! It is vital but does not require skill or knowledge.

Regarding, Broadway- I will not use him in my environment again!!!

Breeding is an Art but in today's market of AI AND ET that art requires a knowledge of biology. Breeding is a function of reproductive physiology. Dr. Spears is one of the industry's premier embryo transfer scientist. I took embryology under him 40 years ago. The course was taught like a graduate level reproductive physiology course. Selection is based on the science of genetics - which covers all aspects of phenotype and genotype. Understanding the anatomy of a Bovine is fundamental. Biology is the same science used in veterinarian medicine.

I hear some good breeders making statements that are contrary to the science of genetics. In most cases, it does not adversely affect their goals.

My point is that biology is the very foundation of animal husbandry. Period.

That's your opinion, I don't see it that way. A lot of good animals are bred by people using numbers only. What does biology have to do with sticking your arm in a cows but and knowing what your feeling and doing? Some have the feeling and some don't, and the more you do the better you get. A good friend can call a cow open at 34 days every time, and he's not a biologist or anything near. But he does do all his own AI, ET palpitation and BSE work, you just need the feel and know what your looking at in a microscope.

 

[Bright Raven]

Explain this a little more for me please. Common sense says you don't breed Broadway to big cows and expect anything different than what you got. And breeding baldie bulls to baldie cows with excessive white leads to calves with excessive white. Nothing biological about any of that. The one common denominator that I see with the elite breeders is record keeping, and you have that down pat.

Well, if you are impressed with record keeping, dare I say you are looking at the light end of the log! It is vital but does not require skill or knowledge.

Regarding, Broadway- I will not use him in my environment again!!!

Breeding is an Art but in today's market of AI AND ET that art requires a knowledge of biology. Breeding is a function of reproductive physiology. Dr. Spears is one of the industry's premier embryo transfer scientist. I took embryology under him 40 years ago. The course was taught like a graduate level reproductive physiology course. Selection is based on the science of genetics - which covers all aspects of phenotype and genotype. Understanding the anatomy of a Bovine is fundamental. Biology is the same science used in veterinarian medicine.

I hear some good breeders making statements that are contrary to the science of genetics. In most cases, it does not adversely affect their goals.

My point is that biology is the very foundation of animal husbandry. Period.

That's your opinion, I don't see it that way. A lot of good animals are bred by people using numbers only. What does biology have to do with sticking your arm in a cows but and knowing what your feeling and doing? Some have the feeling and some don't, and the more you do the better you get. A good friend can call a cow open at 34 days every time, and he's not a biologist or anything near. But he does do all his own AI, ET palpitation and BSE work, you just need the feel and know what your looking at in a microscope.

My friend, the practices you listed all fall under the category of BIOLOGY.

PS: How does your friend certify the BSE? If he does it for himself, what value does it represent? Does he palpate the prostate? Does he Check the penis for anatomical anomalies? Dies he have knowledge of the normal morphology of a Bovine spermatozoan? Does he Know how to conduct a field of view spermatozoan count? (Btw that is not easy unless you have a field counter) Does he know how to assess motility? Even measuring the circumference of the scrotum requires just the right amount of tension on the tape.

Not saying he don't do these things but it is certainly within the science of biology that he has to have some level of knowledge to perform a BSE.

 

[callmefence]

Well, if you are impressed with record keeping, dare I say you are looking at the light end of the log! It is vital but does not require skill or knowledge.

Regarding, Broadway- I will not use him in my environment again!!!

Breeding is an Art but in today's market of AI AND ET that art requires a knowledge of biology. Breeding is a function of reproductive physiology. Dr. Spears is one of the industry's premier embryo transfer scientist. I took embryology under him 40 years ago. The course was taught like a graduate level reproductive physiology course. Selection is based on the science of genetics - which covers all aspects of phenotype and genotype. Understanding the anatomy of a Bovine is fundamental. Biology is the same science used in veterinarian medicine.

I hear some good breeders making statements that are contrary to the science of genetics. In most cases, it does not adversely affect their goals.

My point is that biology is the very foundation of animal husbandry. Period.

That's your opinion, I don't see it that way. A lot of good animals are bred by people using numbers only. What does biology have to do with sticking your arm in a cows but and knowing what your feeling and doing? Some have the feeling and some don't, and the more you do the better you get. A good friend can call a cow open at 34 days every time, and he's not a biologist or anything near. But he does do all his own AI, ET palpitation and BSE work, you just need the feel and know what your looking at in a microscope.

My friend, the practices you listed all fall under the category of BIOLOGY.

PS: How does your friend certify the BSE? If he does it for himself, what value does it represent? Does he palpate the prostate? Does he Check the penis for anatomical anomalies? Dies he have knowledge of the normal morphology of a Bovine spermatozoan? Does he Know how to conduct a field of view spermatozoan count? (Btw that is not easy unless you have a field counter) Does he know how to assess motility? Even measuring the circumference of the scrotum requires just the right amount of tension on the tape.

Not saying he don't do these things but it is certainly within the science of biology that he has to have some level of knowledge to perform a BSE.

I'm starting to think both of you wingnuts is smoking outta the same pipe. Lol.,...

 

[Bright Raven]

That's your opinion, I don't see it that way. A lot of good animals are bred by people using numbers only. What does biology have to do with sticking your arm in a cows but and knowing what your feeling and doing? Some have the feeling and some don't, and the more you do the better you get. A good friend can call a cow open at 34 days every time, and he's not a biologist or anything near. But he does do all his own AI, ET palpitation and BSE work, you just need the feel and know what your looking at in a microscope.

My friend, the practices you listed all fall under the category of BIOLOGY.

PS: How does your friend certify the BSE? If he does it for himself, what value does it represent? Does he palpate the prostate? Does he Check the penis for anatomical anomalies? Dies he have knowledge of the normal morphology of a Bovine spermatozoan? Does he Know how to conduct a field of view spermatozoan count? (Btw that is not easy unless you have a field counter) Does he know how to assess motility? Even measuring the circumference of the scrotum requires just the right amount of tension on the tape.

Not saying he don't do these things but it is certainly within the science of biology that he has to have some level of knowledge to perform a BSE.

I'm starting to think both of you wingnuts is smoking outta the same pipe. Lol.,...

I don't smoke and if I did, I sure wouldn't smoke out of a pipe Vince did.

 

[callmefence]

My friend, the practices you listed all fall under the category of BIOLOGY.

PS: How does your friend certify the BSE? If he does it for himself, what value does it represent? Does he palpate the prostate? Does he Check the penis for anatomical anomalies? Dies he have knowledge of the normal morphology of a Bovine spermatozoan? Does he Know how to conduct a field of view spermatozoan count? (Btw that is not easy unless you have a field counter) Does he know how to assess motility? Even measuring the circumference of the scrotum requires just the right amount of tension on the tape.

Not saying he don't do these things but it is certainly within the science of biology that he has to have some level of knowledge to perform a BSE.

I'm starting to think both of you wingnuts is smoking outta the same pipe. Lol.,...

I don't smoke and if I did, I sure wouldn't smoke out of a pipe Vince did.

I hear that.
Fwiw. When it comes to the biology thing. You should see my bulls preg check em. Their never wrong. ;-)

 

[Nesikep]

I've seen a bull chase a cow that had a calf a month later.. so yeah, they're wrong too sometimes

 

[True Grit Farms]

I've seen a bull chase a cow that had a calf a month later.. so yeah, they're wrong too sometimes

Ooh that smell, I've seen bulls do that quite often, it must be some kind of smell that a cows system gives off as their preparing to have a calf.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Well, if you are impressed with record keeping, dare I say you are looking at the light end of the log! It is vital but does not require skill or knowledge.

Regarding, Broadway- I will not use him in my environment again!!!

Breeding is an Art but in today's market of AI AND ET that art requires a knowledge of biology. Breeding is a function of reproductive physiology. Dr. Spears is one of the industry's premier embryo transfer scientist. I took embryology under him 40 years ago. The course was taught like a graduate level reproductive physiology course. Selection is based on the science of genetics - which covers all aspects of phenotype and genotype. Understanding the anatomy of a Bovine is fundamental. Biology is the same science used in veterinarian medicine.

I hear some good breeders making statements that are contrary to the science of genetics. In most cases, it does not adversely affect their goals.

My point is that biology is the very foundation of animal husbandry. Period.

That's your opinion, I don't see it that way. A lot of good animals are bred by people using numbers only. What does biology have to do with sticking your arm in a cows but and knowing what your feeling and doing? Some have the feeling and some don't, and the more you do the better you get. A good friend can call a cow open at 34 days every time, and he's not a biologist or anything near. But he does do all his own AI, ET palpitation and BSE work, you just need the feel and know what your looking at in a microscope.

My friend, the practices you listed all fall under the category of BIOLOGY.

PS: How does your friend certify the BSE? If he does it for himself, what value does it represent? Does he palpate the prostate? Does he Check the penis for anatomical anomalies? Dies he have knowledge of the normal morphology of a Bovine spermatozoan? Does he Know how to conduct a field of view spermatozoan count? (Btw that is not easy unless you have a field counter) Does he know how to assess motility? Even measuring the circumference of the scrotum requires just the right amount of tension on the tape.

Not saying he don't do these things but it is certainly within the science of biology that he has to have some level of knowledge to perform a BSE.

I honestly don't know what he knows. But I do know he doesn't need a Pulsator to make a bull ejaculate. He just does something with his hand while he's feeling around in there and here comes the sample. He does a live semen swimming count, and then he kills them and looks at the shape of the sperms head and tail. He always tells me, there's no magic to it, just get in there and feel around. A word of caution to those that want to learn how to palpate a cow. I'm a 100% sure I've cause abortions while trying to learn how to palpate early in the first trimester. So now if I can't tell if a cows bred once I get past the cervix a little, I take a blood sample.

 

[Dsteim]

I've seen a bull chase a cow that had a calf a month later.. so yeah, they're wrong too sometimes

Ooh that smell, I've seen bulls do that quite often, it must be some kind of smell that a cows system gives off as their preparing to have a calf.

Out of curiosity what brangus ranch did you visit?

 

[True Grit Farms]

I've seen a bull chase a cow that had a calf a month later.. so yeah, they're wrong too sometimes

Ooh that smell, I've seen bulls do that quite often, it must be some kind of smell that a cows system gives off as their preparing to have a calf.

Out of curiosity what brangus ranch did you visit?

https://www.wynneranch.com

 

[Dsteim]

Ooh that smell, I've seen bulls do that quite often, it must be some kind of smell that a cows system gives off as their preparing to have a calf.

Out of curiosity what brangus ranch did you visit?

https://www.wynneranch.com

I like wr duke 228/f a bunch sure wish I could get some straws from that bull. I didn't know they had a sale thought they just sold private treaty.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Out of curiosity what brangus ranch did you visit?

https://www.wynneranch.com

I like wr duke 228/f a bunch sure wish I could get some straws from that bull. I didn't know they had a sale thought they just sold private treaty.

Yes everything is sold private treaty. They have 6k straws of WR Duke semen, but I guess it's not for sale? I never asked about availability.