Amniotic Fluid

[Supa Dexta]

Amniotic fluid - Being a typical guy and only seeing what comes out the back end of a cow - I don't fully understand what goes on inside of a female.. Body or brain.

From what I gather the calf is in a sac, filled with amniotic fluid. You see this sack come out first, their water breaks and then you get the calf out and make sure the sack isn't over its face. Now - that fluid from the water break, the calf lives in it right? so is it's lungs filled with it? (how couldn't they be if its surrounded by it) The little bit of reading I did on it, it leads me to believe that is correct and the birth squeezes the fluid out of its lungs. The calf takes its first gasp once out and then its on air. Up until birth it gets it oxygen and nutrients thru the umbilical cord.

But if you have a C section how does the fluid get out of their lungs? There's also mention in babies, if they crap during birth they can inhale the crap in the fluid, and this can lead to lung infection. So again, that points to fluid in the lungs, if they call it inhaling.

I lost a calf this morning, head was turned back and by the time I got its legs pushed back in and turned, got the head up and then pulled it out, it was DOA. Another farmer stopped by and said it likely took too long and drown to death. And thats how we got talking about this fluid.

Provided the cord is still attached, and the calf is still in the cow with only the legs out it should be getting it air from the cord. When I did get its head out and cleared the chest there was a gush of thick clear liquid poured out of its mouth an nose. I expected to take a gasp, but it never flinched. It was a struggle to get the head positioned, and the sack could have ripped during that, as I kept catching its teeth even with my glove - but the sack is broken and hanging outside the cow already at that point, so I dont think it provides any barrier keeping fluid out.

1 hr from time I found her, to getting calf turned. Once lined it up I had it out to its hips within a minute. Dead on arrival, so took a breather and then got hips out.

 

[dun]

One of the vets will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think thel ungs are basicly collapsed until they breath the first time.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Yes, that's the way I understand it too - not sure what makes them expand upon delivery - maybe broken cord makes them then gasp for air, expanding their lungs?

But the half cup to cup of fluid must be just what's in its mouth and throat. And to add to my questions - do they sometimes get a pinched or broken cord, causing them to gasp in the womb, swallowing this fluid and drowning before delivery?

 

[suzorse]

how long was the cow in labor before you helped ? I had a breach calf pulled by my vet that was alive
when pulled but was not able to take a breath tried but died , Vet was busy with 2d calf ,leg back on second 1 , I also had 1 pulled that was DOA small calf but not progressing ,vet said it was because the calf was dead as it helps at birth , do not know on that 1 ,
a calf is in a sack in a sack , outside is the placenta ,the calf is in that in a sack , water breaks
placenta sack , then calf in the sack presents and as it comes out the placenta turns inside out
so if you ever can check a placenta before the cow eats it the smooth side with cord attached
is the inside that is against the calf and the dark inside is what was attached to the uterine wall
with the calfs head turned it may have been in the canal to long and got its cord pinched or may have already been dead ,
sorry you lost 1
Suzanne

 

[Supa Dexta]

Noticed her right off the bat really from what I can tell. But it was an hour between getting her caught and getting the head up, it was down and to the left. Big calf in a small heifer. I don't think time was the issue, I just think something happened in there while straightening it out. Nothing at 6am, found her started at 730 and calf out by 830

I thought I caught her pushing a week ago, but when approached she jumped up and went back to eating. I dont believe the calf has been dead too long, as it doesnt smell or anything abnormal. There was quite a gush of fluid came out its mouth and nose though, which made me look into this further.

 

[hillsdown]

Amniotic fluid - Being a typical guy and only seeing what comes out the back end of a cow - I don't fully understand what goes on inside of a female.. Body or brain.

From what I gather the calf is in a sac, filled with amniotic fluid. You see this sack come out first, their water breaks and then you get the calf out and make sure the sack isn't over its face. Now - that fluid from the water break, the calf lives in it right? so is it's lungs filled with it? (how couldn't they be if its surrounded by it) The little bit of reading I did on it, it leads me to believe that is correct and the birth squeezes the fluid out of its lungs. The calf takes its first gasp once out and then its on air. Up until birth it gets it oxygen and nutrients thru the umbilical cord.

But if you have a C section how does the fluid get out of their lungs? There's also mention in babies, if they crap during birth they can inhale the crap in the fluid, and this can lead to lung infection. So again, that points to fluid in the lungs, if they call it inhaling.

I lost a calf this morning, head was turned back and by the time I got its legs pushed back in and turned, got the head up and then pulled it out, it was DOA. Another farmer stopped by and said it likely took too long and drown to death. And thats how we got talking about this fluid.

Provided the cord is still attached, and the calf is still in the cow with only the legs out it should be getting it air from the cord. When I did get its head out and cleared the chest there was a gush of thick clear liquid poured out of its mouth an nose. I expected to take a gasp, but it never flinched. It was a struggle to get the head positioned, and the sack could have ripped during that, as I kept catching its teeth even with my glove - but the sack is broken and hanging outside the cow already at that point, so I dont think it provides any barrier keeping fluid out.

1 hr from time I found her, to getting calf turned. Once lined it up I had it out to its hips within a minute. Dead on arrival, so took a breather and then got hips out.

Once you start pulling you and you have the chest extended you need to get the calf out asap as they cannot breathe in that position. I doubt it drowned, more than likely is suffocated IF it was sill alive to begin with at the time of pulling.

 

[Supa Dexta]

I cleared its chest, from front hooves to back hips in under a minutes likely. I've also delivered hundreds of calves.

 

[bball]

Placenta could have separated from uterine wall = no more blood/oxygen supply = suffocated calf.

 

[Bigfoot]

I don't know how many backwards calves I've saved, but it's just a sprinkling. I always figure it's umbilical cord broke, before I ever even started. May not be the case, but it's what I've always had in my head. I read something lucky posted not to along about it being unnecessary to shake a calf upside that you've pulled. I haven't pulled one since I read it. I never was one to hang a calf over a gate, but I have seen it done (even by vets). I guess the roll of fluid in the lungs, has been overplayed over the years.

 

[milkmaid]

Prior to birth the calf receives oxygen from the placenta via the umbilical cord. Blood going through the heart is shunted to the body rather than the lungs since they aren't necessary at that point.

Calf swallows amnionic fluid routinely in utero - actually really nice because we can use stomach contents to look for infectious causes of abortion. He doesn't breathe amnionic fluid except by accident.

During birth the umbilical cord is compressed, and the circulation through the heart changes. After birth the lungs inflate as the calf takes his first breath.

Backwards calf, umbilical cord gets compressed, calf doesn't get any more oxygen from the placenta, has to breathe and drowns in umbilical fluid. Calf has 4 minutes max.

Forwards calf, normal presentation, takes too long and the calf's head swells, rib cage compressed, he suffocates.

Malpresentation, either he suffocates or dies due to stress. I think you have about 3 hours max to get a calf out when the cow is in stage II labor. (Mares you've about 60 minutes and that's pushing it.)

Meconium on the calf is an indicator of fetal stress.

Ideally any fluid in the lungs gets pushed out when the calf's ribcage is compressed going through the pelvis. Doesn't happen in a c-section obviously but the calf takes a breath when he's not getting any more oxygen via the umbilical cord. Fluid left in the lungs gets absorbed after birth. Inhalation of meconium does tend to result in aspiration pneumonia.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Thanks for that.

And I didnt mean to suggest they breath the fluid normally as if they are breathing air. I just wondered if they do accidentally inhale it and drown on occasion.. There has to be a limit on how much they can take on and absorb I would think.

 

[dun]

Concerning the head back deal. A couple of years ago we had a cow that had her calf with the head folded back, calf was dead, neck was broken while she was passing it.