Amber for weed control....

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eric

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Has anyone ever used the chemical AMBER for pasture weed control? I was told that GRAZON could only be sold to liscensed chemical applicators but that AMBER is pretty much the same stuff. It only requires 1/2 ounce per acre and supposedly kills the same broadleaf weeds that GRAZON does. Any feedback would be appreciated!
 
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No, I don't know the mfr, as I was just dropping some soil off to be tested at the seed company and was talking to the owner and inquired if it was too late to apply GRAZON, and he mentioned to me about the chemical applicators liscense being required in TX to purchase GRAZON. His next best recommendation was AMBER. From reading WO's post, it apppears AMBER mixxed with 2,4-D is the way to go. It's just hard to imagine 1/2 ounce per acre doing much good! I am just now getting around to doing some internet research and will see what I can find out here on it. Thanks for the help guys!
 

Texan

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Eric, from looking at WO's link, the Amber might be a relative to Ally. If so, it might be a dry flowable instead of a liquid. Therefore the rate of 1/2 ounce by weight could be pretty expensive. I know that for Ally, most rates are 1/10 to 3/10 ounce per acre. You need to find out if it's 1/2 fluid ounce or if it's dry.

Maybe Campground or one of the better chemists could be more help to you. Chemistry was one of those GPA wreckers for me (along with happy hour, nine ball and girls.)
 

Campground Cattle

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Texan":1agp75al said:
Eric, from looking at WO's link, the Amber might be a relative to Ally. If so, it might be a dry flowable instead of a liquid. Therefore the rate of 1/2 ounce by weight could be pretty expensive. I know that for Ally, most rates are 1/10 to 3/10 ounce per acre. You need to find out if it's 1/2 fluid ounce or if it's dry.

Maybe Campground or one of the better chemists could be more help to you. Chemistry was one of those GPA wreckers for me (along with happy hour, nine ball and girls.)

You can't buy 2-4 D either without a license, the only thing I know you can buy without one is Remedy and Reclaim. I don't know the pricing on Amber and rates per acre I will have to do some research as I have always used Grazon. But I guess the real question is why don't you go to your county agent, get the material and get your applicators license.
 

dun

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Campground Cattle":18u81izh said:
Texan":18u81izh said:
Eric, from looking at WO's link, the Amber might be a relative to Ally. If so, it might be a dry flowable instead of a liquid. Therefore the rate of 1/2 ounce by weight could be pretty expensive. I know that for Ally, most rates are 1/10 to 3/10 ounce per acre. You need to find out if it's 1/2 fluid ounce or if it's dry.

Maybe Campground or one of the better chemists could be more help to you. Chemistry was one of those GPA wreckers for me (along with happy hour, nine ball and girls.)

You can't buy 2-4 D either without a license, the only thing I know you can buy without one is Remedy and Reclaim. I don't know the pricing on Amber and rates per acre I will have to do some research as I have always used Grazon. But I guess the real question is why don't you go to your county agent, get the material and get your applicators license.

Here you can by 2,4 d anywhere, but Grazon is restricted. Grazon is bascly 2,4 d and picloram. It's the picloram that is the restricted ingredient. I agree about getting the license. Doesn't take long and it's free.

dun
 

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Dun I might be wrong on 2-4d have to back and check my book on restricted herbicides.



The secret of successful weed control in fields that have been planted to perennial grasses is timeliness. Most winter and summer annual broadleaf weeds can be controlled if the herbicides are applied when the weeds are less than 6 inches tall. If weeds are killed early, competition is reduced and the seeded grasses can make more rapid growth.


Ally can be applied at 0.1 oz/acre to the following grasses after the 3- to 4-leaf stage:
blackwell switchgrass; blue grama; big, little, plains, sand, ww spar bluestem; buffalograss; green sprangletop; Indiangrass; kleingrass; altherstone, sand, weeping, and Wilman lovegrass; sideoats grama; orchardgrass; Russian wildrye; and bluebunch, crested, intermediate, pubescent, Siberian, slender, streambank, tall, thickspike, and western wheatgrass. Do not use on soils with a pH greater than 8.0 or on legumes. Add a surfactant at 0.25% v/v. To improve the spectrum of weeds controlled add 2,4-D LVE at 0.25 pt/acre. Grasses must be in 5-leaf stage.
Some broadleaf weeds have become tolerant to Ally and other ALS herbicides. If Ally, Amber, Finesse, or Glean have been used in the past, ALS-resistant kochia or other broadleaf weeds may be present.


Amber at 0.28 to 0.56 oz/acre controls many broadleaf weeds. Use 60 days after emergence
of desirable grasses. The grasses should be in 3 to 4-leaf stage. If 2,4-D is added, wait until after grasses are in 5-leaf stage. The following grasses are listed on the label: bermudagrass, big bluestem, little bluestem, smooth brome, buffalograss, sheep fescue, blue grama, sideoats grama, redtop, timothy, and bluebunch, intermediate and pubescent wheatgrass. Do not use on grass/legume mixture. Add surfactant at 0.25% v/v. The possibility of ALS-resistant weeds exists.

Banvel plus 2,4-D amine is a good combination if 2,4-D tolerant weeds are present, such
as wild buckwheat, triazine-resistant kochia, or ALS-resistant weeds. Apply 0.5 pt/acre of Banvel plus 1 pt/acre of 2,4-D amine for cool-season grasses after the 5-leaf stage. Warm-season grasses are more prone to injury, so the use rate should be reduced to 0.25 pt/acre of Banvel plus 0.5 pt/acre of 2,4-D amine. Grass stands that are more than one year old may be treated with 0.5 to 1 pt/acre of Banvel plus 0.5 to 2 pt/acre of 2,4-D amine for perennial weed control. Banvel and 2,4-D will kill legumes in grass/legume seedings. Rates of 2,4-D are based on 4 lb ae/gal.

Buctril 2EC controls many broadleaf weeds and will not injure most grasses after the 3-leaf
stage. Buctril 2EC should be applied at 1.5 to 2.0 pt/acre in a minimum of 10 gal/acre of carrier by ground or 5 gal/ acre by air. This treatment may be applied to grass/alfalfa mixtures after the third trifoliate leaf stage of alfalfa, though temporary leaf burning may be noticeable after application. Buctril 2EC can be tank mixed with 2,4-D to improve broadleaf weed control, but grasses must be in the 5-leaf stage. However, this tank mix will kill or injure legumes in grass/legume mixtures.

Curtail is effective on many summer and winter annual weeds at 2 to 4 pt/acre. Curtail is
applied after perennial grasses have been established for one season and have tillered and developed a good secondary root system. The plants should be actively growing. During the second year, when perennial grasses have become more established, Curtail at 2 to 4 qt/acre can be used to aid in the control of Canada thistle. Musk thistle also can be controlled at 3 to 5 pt/acre.

2,4-D amine or ester will control most broadleaf weeds and will cause very little injury to most
grasses when applied after the 5-leaf stage. Use 1 pt/acre of amine and 1/2 pt/acre of Low Vol ester on cool-season grasses. Reduce the rate by one half to three fourths on warm-season grasses, which are less tolerant of 2,4-D. Legumes in grass/legume mixtures will be killed or injured with this treatment. Rates are based on 4 lb/gal acre of 2,4-D.

Escort is labeled for postemergence applications to crested wheatgrass and smooth brome at
0.25 to 1.0 oz/acre; and fescue and bluegrass at 0.25 to 0.5 oz/acre. Escort should be applied after the 3 to 4-leaf stage of the grasses. Add surfactant at 0.25% v/v.

Pursuit can be applied to legumes in 3-trifoliate growth stage and perennial grasses in 4-leaf
stage. Use 4 oz/acre on alfalfa, clover, crown vetch, birdsfoot trefoil, lespedeza, smooth brome, reed canarygrass, orchardgrass, big bluestem, little bluestem, switchgrass, Russian wildrye, and intermediate, crested, and tall wheatgrass. Use a non-ionic surfactant at 0.25% v/v with Pursuit.
 

Texan

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Dun, here we have to have one to buy larger quantities of 2,4-D. I think you might can buy quarts without one so that the homeowner who doesn't know squat about chemicals isn't restricted. I bought 15 gallons yesterday and they asked for it. Go figure.
 

dun

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Campground Cattle":o1ttxy1e said:
Dun I might be wrong on 2-4d have to back and check my book on restricted herbicides.



The secret of successful weed control in fields that have been planted to perennial grasses is timeliness. Most winter and summer annual broadleaf weeds can be controlled if the herbicides are applied when the weeds are less than 6 inches tall. If weeds are killed early, competition is reduced and the seeded grasses can make more rapid growth.


Ally can be applied at 0.1 oz/acre to the following grasses after the 3- to 4-leaf stage:
blackwell switchgrass; blue grama; big, little, plains, sand, ww spar bluestem; buffalograss; green sprangletop; Indiangrass; kleingrass; altherstone, sand, weeping, and Wilman lovegrass; sideoats grama; orchardgrass; Russian wildrye; and bluebunch, crested, intermediate, pubescent, Siberian, slender, streambank, tall, thickspike, and western wheatgrass. Do not use on soils with a pH greater than 8.0 or on legumes. Add a surfactant at 0.25% v/v. To improve the spectrum of weeds controlled add 2,4-D LVE at 0.25 pt/acre. Grasses must be in 5-leaf stage.
Some broadleaf weeds have become tolerant to Ally and other ALS herbicides. If Ally, Amber, Finesse, or Glean have been used in the past, ALS-resistant kochia or other broadleaf weeds may be present.


Amber at 0.28 to 0.56 oz/acre controls many broadleaf weeds. Use 60 days after emergence
of desirable grasses. The grasses should be in 3 to 4-leaf stage. If 2,4-D is added, wait until after grasses are in 5-leaf stage. The following grasses are listed on the label: bermudagrass, big bluestem, little bluestem, smooth brome, buffalograss, sheep fescue, blue grama, sideoats grama, redtop, timothy, and bluebunch, intermediate and pubescent wheatgrass. Do not use on grass/legume mixture. Add surfactant at 0.25% v/v. The possibility of ALS-resistant weeds exists.

Banvel plus 2,4-D amine is a good combination if 2,4-D tolerant weeds are present, such
as wild buckwheat, triazine-resistant kochia, or ALS-resistant weeds. Apply 0.5 pt/acre of Banvel plus 1 pt/acre of 2,4-D amine for cool-season grasses after the 5-leaf stage. Warm-season grasses are more prone to injury, so the use rate should be reduced to 0.25 pt/acre of Banvel plus 0.5 pt/acre of 2,4-D amine. Grass stands that are more than one year old may be treated with 0.5 to 1 pt/acre of Banvel plus 0.5 to 2 pt/acre of 2,4-D amine for perennial weed control. Banvel and 2,4-D will kill legumes in grass/legume seedings. Rates of 2,4-D are based on 4 lb ae/gal.

Buctril 2EC controls many broadleaf weeds and will not injure most grasses after the 3-leaf
stage. Buctril 2EC should be applied at 1.5 to 2.0 pt/acre in a minimum of 10 gal/acre of carrier by ground or 5 gal/ acre by air. This treatment may be applied to grass/alfalfa mixtures after the third trifoliate leaf stage of alfalfa, though temporary leaf burning may be noticeable after application. Buctril 2EC can be tank mixed with 2,4-D to improve broadleaf weed control, but grasses must be in the 5-leaf stage. However, this tank mix will kill or injure legumes in grass/legume mixtures.

Curtail is effective on many summer and winter annual weeds at 2 to 4 pt/acre. Curtail is
applied after perennial grasses have been established for one season and have tillered and developed a good secondary root system. The plants should be actively growing. During the second year, when perennial grasses have become more established, Curtail at 2 to 4 qt/acre can be used to aid in the control of Canada thistle. Musk thistle also can be controlled at 3 to 5 pt/acre.

2,4-D amine or ester will control most broadleaf weeds and will cause very little injury to most
grasses when applied after the 5-leaf stage. Use 1 pt/acre of amine and 1/2 pt/acre of Low Vol ester on cool-season grasses. Reduce the rate by one half to three fourths on warm-season grasses, which are less tolerant of 2,4-D. Legumes in grass/legume mixtures will be killed or injured with this treatment. Rates are based on 4 lb/gal acre of 2,4-D.

Escort is labeled for postemergence applications to crested wheatgrass and smooth brome at
0.25 to 1.0 oz/acre; and fescue and bluegrass at 0.25 to 0.5 oz/acre. Escort should be applied after the 3 to 4-leaf stage of the grasses. Add surfactant at 0.25% v/v.

Pursuit can be applied to legumes in 3-trifoliate growth stage and perennial grasses in 4-leaf
stage. Use 4 oz/acre on alfalfa, clover, crown vetch, birdsfoot trefoil, lespedeza, smooth brome, reed canarygrass, orchardgrass, big bluestem, little bluestem, switchgrass, Russian wildrye, and intermediate, crested, and tall wheatgrass. Use a non-ionic surfactant at 0.25% v/v with Pursuit.

Even with a license I've found that for most applications glyphos, 2-4 d, or remedy pretty much takes care of our weed/brush situation.

I've been really impressed with remedy on MF rose (the MF doesn;t necessarrily stand for Multi Flora) and locust, and 2-4 d on thistle.
Other then queen anns lace (wild carrot) and horse nettle we don't have a weed problem that can't be solved just as well with mowing. The cows eat the field bind weed so that's not a problem, mares tail just needs clipping.
No if we could find something that would eliminate rocks and effectively eliminate fescue we'ld be eating high on the hog.

dun

dun
 

dun

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Campground Cattle":1e7y3ubp said:
The only sucess I have had with nettle is spaying it in bloom, and there still seem to be some that can hang on.

Seems like they wilt, turn black, then resprout. Last year we waited till they went to seed and cut the plants off at the ground and burned the plants and seeds. It actually seemed to help, but it was a very small field, about 5 acres. That's what grandkids are for. That and picking up walnuts.

dun
 
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eric

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I plan on doing a pasture thats about 10 acres. This pasture as far as I know has never been treated for weeds, as I just let the old man across the street fertilize it whenever he fertilized his pastures. Now that I am running cows on it I would like to increase the nutrient value and maybe even one day get it up to hay quality, and let him bale it for me. I have a smaller pasture about 5 acres that I take care of with my pull behind sprayer and my 4 wheeler, it has more trees and the smaller sprayer seems to work good on it. I can buy the 2,4-D w/o a applicaters liscense in the qt size bottles.
The cost of the AMBER is $11.20 per ounce. I am gonna need about 5 ounces. The sprayer they have is a 30 ft boom and a 300 gallon tank. Should I just put a couple hundred gallons of water in the tank, add the chemical, then add the other 100 gallons, and then spread until the tank goes empty? How long should 10 acres take? The seed store was talking like I could pick up the sprayer at 7:30 am Sat morning and have it back by 12 or 1 pm! Should it go that quickly? Counting drive time, that gives me about 3 1/2 hrs to spray the whole pasture.
 

dun

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eric":34zgtf20 said:
I plan on doing a pasture thats about 10 acres. This pasture as far as I know has never been treated for weeds, as I just let the old man across the street fertilize it whenever he fertilized his pastures. Now that I am running cows on it I would like to increase the nutrient value and maybe even one day get it up to hay quality, and let him bale it for me. I have a smaller pasture about 5 acres that I take care of with my pull behind sprayer and my 4 wheeler, it has more trees and the smaller sprayer seems to work good on it. I can buy the 2,4-D w/o a applicaters liscense in the qt size bottles.
The cost of the AMBER is $11.20 per ounce. I am gonna need about 5 ounces. The sprayer they have is a 30 ft boom and a 300 gallon tank. Should I just put a couple hundred gallons of water in the tank, add the chemical, then add the other 100 gallons, and then spread until the tank goes empty? How long should 10 acres take? The seed store was talking like I could pick up the sprayer at 7:30 am Sat morning and have it back by 12 or 1 pm! Should it go that quickly? Counting drive time, that gives me about 3 1/2 hrs to spray the whole pasture.

Personally, I'ld just hire it done. So much depends on ground speed, nozzle size and pressure that it's pretty hard to get a uniform amount applied. You should have a company/person that knows what they're doing and have experience applying that particular product. The cost would be minimal if you consider the value of your time into the equation.

dun
 

txag

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dun":2y2kqlnr said:
eric":2y2kqlnr said:
I plan on doing a pasture thats about 10 acres. This pasture as far as I know has never been treated for weeds, as I just let the old man across the street fertilize it whenever he fertilized his pastures. Now that I am running cows on it I would like to increase the nutrient value and maybe even one day get it up to hay quality, and let him bale it for me. I have a smaller pasture about 5 acres that I take care of with my pull behind sprayer and my 4 wheeler, it has more trees and the smaller sprayer seems to work good on it. I can buy the 2,4-D w/o a applicaters liscense in the qt size bottles.
The cost of the AMBER is $11.20 per ounce. I am gonna need about 5 ounces. The sprayer they have is a 30 ft boom and a 300 gallon tank. Should I just put a couple hundred gallons of water in the tank, add the chemical, then add the other 100 gallons, and then spread until the tank goes empty? How long should 10 acres take? The seed store was talking like I could pick up the sprayer at 7:30 am Sat morning and have it back by 12 or 1 pm! Should it go that quickly? Counting drive time, that gives me about 3 1/2 hrs to spray the whole pasture.

Personally, I'ld just hire it done. So much depends on ground speed, nozzle size and pressure that it's pretty hard to get a uniform amount applied. You should have a company/person that knows what they're doing and have experience applying that particular product. The cost would be minimal if you consider the value of your time into the equation.

dun

i agree. lots of folks around here just have the feed store put it out for them. if your feed store doesn't offer this service maybe you could have the old man across the street do it for you again. if you tell the feed store how many acres, they should be able to formulate the fertilizer and weed killer & set the sprayer to the correct settings for the application rate you'll need. you also have to be careful when applying because in our experience the liquid spreaders tend to have the nozzles clog & if you're not paying close attention you could easily miss a strip(s).
 

Campground Cattle

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txag":3q0qd7z9 said:
dun":3q0qd7z9 said:
eric":3q0qd7z9 said:
I plan on doing a pasture thats about 10 acres. This pasture as far as I know has never been treated for weeds, as I just let the old man across the street fertilize it whenever he fertilized his pastures. Now that I am running cows on it I would like to increase the nutrient value and maybe even one day get it up to hay quality, and let him bale it for me. I have a smaller pasture about 5 acres that I take care of with my pull behind sprayer and my 4 wheeler, it has more trees and the smaller sprayer seems to work good on it. I can buy the 2,4-D w/o a applicaters liscense in the qt size bottles.
The cost of the AMBER is $11.20 per ounce. I am gonna need about 5 ounces. The sprayer they have is a 30 ft boom and a 300 gallon tank. Should I just put a couple hundred gallons of water in the tank, add the chemical, then add the other 100 gallons, and then spread until the tank goes empty? How long should 10 acres take? The seed store was talking like I could pick up the sprayer at 7:30 am Sat morning and have it back by 12 or 1 pm! Should it go that quickly? Counting drive time, that gives me about 3 1/2 hrs to spray the whole pasture.

Personally, I'ld just hire it done. So much depends on ground speed, nozzle size and pressure that it's pretty hard to get a uniform amount applied. You should have a company/person that knows what they're doing and have experience applying that particular product. The cost would be minimal if you consider the value of your time into the equation.

dun

i agree. lots of folks around here just have the feed store put it out for them. if your feed store doesn't offer this service maybe you could have the old man across the street do it for you again. if you tell the feed store how many acres, they should be able to formulate the fertilizer and weed killer & set the sprayer to the correct settings for the application rate you'll need. you also have to be careful when applying because in our experience the liquid spreaders tend to have the nozzles clog & if you're not paying close attention you could easily miss a strip(s).


Agree on hiring it done you could easily end up with poor results, there are so many varibles as stated ground speed, tractor rpms, pressure regulator settings . This is not easy as it sounds to do correctly.
 

Texan

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eric":39oo3ls2 said:
I plan on doing a pasture thats about 10 acres. This pasture as far as I know has never been treated for weeds, as I just let the old man across the street fertilize it whenever he fertilized his pastures. Now that I am running cows on it I would like to increase the nutrient value and maybe even one day get it up to hay quality, and let him bale it for me. I have a smaller pasture about 5 acres that I take care of with my pull behind sprayer and my 4 wheeler, it has more trees and the smaller sprayer seems to work good on it. I can buy the 2,4-D w/o a applicaters liscense in the qt size bottles.
The cost of the AMBER is $11.20 per ounce. I am gonna need about 5 ounces. The sprayer they have is a 30 ft boom and a 300 gallon tank. Should I just put a couple hundred gallons of water in the tank, add the chemical, then add the other 100 gallons, and then spread until the tank goes empty? How long should 10 acres take? The seed store was talking like I could pick up the sprayer at 7:30 am Sat morning and have it back by 12 or 1 pm! Should it go that quickly? Counting drive time, that gives me about 3 1/2 hrs to spray the whole pasture.

Eric, I would have to agree with the others on hiring it done. Even better, would be to do it with your 4 wheeler since you've been doing half that much anyway. You will probably get a lot better results.

But to answer your questions, you will have plenty of time with the big sprayer. I'm not familiar with the Amber label, so my advice is prefaced by saying "always read and follow the label instructions." I would put in at least half of the water and then make a slurry with your chemical in a small bottle or jug so that you can be sure it is in solution. Then start your agitation, add your solution, then add the rest of the water, then add surfactant. Filling up the sprayer will give you 30 gallons of water per acre and that will give good coverage.

It usually takes about two hours to spray out a 315 gal tank at 30-40 psi. I'm sure that you're aware that you are going to have to know your tractor speed to calibrate your coverage properly. Going over the ground in two directions at half rate will probably do you a better job if your sprayer doesn't have markers. A 30 foot boom is harder to use than you might imagine. At least start early enough where you have enough dew to see your tracks. Wind is usually more optimal early, as well.

One more thing on your choice of chemical. Again, I am assuming that the Amber works like Ally. If so, and since you are used to using 2,4-D, you will probably be very disappointed if you expect immediate results. I know that with 2,4-D, you spray this morning and see some wilt by afternoon. With Ally and possibly Amber, you may not notice results for two or three weeks.
 

Arnold Ziffle

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Eric --- FWIW Amber was also recommended to me as an alternative to using Grazon P+D in situations where either you don't have a private applicator's license or you have cotton growing in relatively close proximity (my situation). The half ounce figure per acre is correct, and it's dry, as somebody earlier surmised.

This late in the growing season it might not have the effect it would have had on fresher growth weeds --- may want to consider shredding and then spraying the fresher regrowth. Also, it has residual effect, so if you had any intention of broadcasting ryegrass seed in the fall it is possible that your ryegrass would be inhibited.

Here's a handy PDF file from A & M that you may want to print. It's about all the various herbicides and their recommended uses in various types of forage situations, etc.

http://soilcrop.tamu.edu/publications/pubs/b5038.pdf
 
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eric

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Arnold, yes I was also told that cutting beforehand would also help, therefore I brushhogged the pasture Monday afternoon, and had planned on spraying Saturday morning. BUT......I woke up Saturday morning at 6 30 to loud thunder and lightening all around me!! Then as I was thinking it might blow over us and started to go pickup the sprayer, the botom fell out and we got about 1 1/2" of rain in about 30 mins!....So that shot that plan. Then it stopped, sun came out, so I called the seed dealer and he told me I could use the sprayer until Monday morning for no extra charge if I wanted to pick it up Sat afternoon and spray on Sunday after church. So as I was preparing to leave again, the skies fell out again and dumped another 1/2" of rain and knocked out the electricity for about 8 hrs! So I finally just gave up and I am watching the weather this week but its not looking good right now!


Texan, not real sure who I can hire this out to, as the old man across the street from me went and died on me last yr, sure miss that guy, as he was cool to talk too and loved to talk about cattle and ranching/farming every chance he got! The dealer didnt think anyone wouild be interested in coming out and spraying just 10 acres, since it would probably take longer to get here than it would to do the spraying! I would much rather pay someone to come do it during the week while I am at work and get it over with, but not having much luck nowadays. I have talked to a few guys who have cut hay on their pastures recently, maybe I will see if they would be interested, or maybe sending one of their guys over to do it, as they could probably just drive their tractor/sprayrig right over to my place. What's the going rate for something like this? I can buy chemicals, rent sprayer and do it myself for about $110. If I bought the chemicals, would $100 be fair to the guy spraying? If it takes him 3 hrs. thats about $30 an hr. I know some of these guys have full time workers, so they might be willing to send one of them over.
 

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