Alberta cattlemen to sue U.S.

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certherfbeef":391er8ca said:
Anonymous wrote:
Oldtimer, You make me sick!!!


Guest- If you are Canadian you are safe and you will live- cheap available drugs will cure you.

If you are in the US, worthless, never have worked and don't want to, but have gotten on the welfare system you will live- government paid for drugs will cure you.

But if you are a US working person without enough insurance or a retiree without enough pension or insurance you might not make it- they won't let you buy the cheap Canadian drugs that could save you.

As for you Old Timer, Ive seen what you have written and you fit in well with this protectionist group. You should keep to raisin' horses not cattle. Idea


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- "Don't let the littleness in others bring out the littleness in
you."


May be you all need to step back and re-read some of these comments you are making. You are saying some pretty mean things about some pretty good people.[/quote]

certified beef- don't know anything mean I've said- everything has been the truth- If you question anything I said , please , please point it out to me so I can explain it---Sometimes the truth is not pretty---the Canadian situation and over 10 year border dispute has not been pretty. Most, except us up here in the border states have been unaware of it until recently.
 
If you are Canadian you are safe and you will live- cheap available drugs will cure you.

I've heard that Canadian drugs are cheaper than US drugs, I believe it is because the government supports those companies in Canada. No wonder my taxes are so high.
 
la4angus":1e2f16h7 said:
P. 1: Canadian action could delay open border: U.S. rancher By Mary MacArthur Camrose bureau Canadian producers who stop cattle owned by members of the U.S.-based R-CALF group from being slaughtered in Canada are hurting their own cause of trying to get the U.S. border opened, says a Montana member of the U.S. protectionist group."All they're going to do is stall the time for opening the border. We've been working hard down here to try to get an organized opening of it, through R-CALF, the organization you guys all think is against you," said Lloyd DeBruycker of Dutton, Mont."We've been trying to get it open. The more they fight it, the worse it's going to get."He said R-CALF should not be blamed for keeping the border closed. American agriculture secretary Ann Veneman, who ignored the rules for importing Canadian meat, forced R-CALF to get a judge to grant a temporary restraining order to prevent an easing of restrictions on Canadian beef from entering the U.S., DeBruycker said. He added that convincing Cargill and Lakeside packing plants in Alberta not to slaughter cattle owned by members of R-CALF will backfire by keeping Americans from buying Canadian cattle this fall. Without American money, few people will see high calf prices as they did last fall, he said. It is estimated 40,000-80,000 head of American cattle are on feed in Canadian feedlots."What they (large Canadian feedlots) are against is Americans buying feeder cattle again this fall because if they can get the American dollar out of the feeder market, both packers and the larger feedlots are going to be able to buy their feeders for practically nothing. That's what they're after," said DeBruycker. Southern Alberta feedlot operator Rick Paskal, who spearheaded the blockade of R-CALF cattle, said DeBruycker is not working to reopen the border. Paskal pointed to a letter from R-CALF president Leo McDonnell soliciting money from its members to continue challenging any relaxation of rules that keep Canadian beef and cattle out of the U.S. It's clear R-CALF will continue to challenge any USDA rulings to reopen the border, said Paskal. DeBruycker said his organization would like to see an orderly reopening of the border that wouldn't lower prices for American cattle with an influx of Canadian animals. He discussed the idea with Paskal and a group of other Canadian producers this summer, but relations soured. Paskal said his patience with industry and government over the border reopening has worn out."What are we supposed to do? Sit down here and take it? I think we've done that long enough."Dennis Laycraft, executive vice-president of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, said while DeBruycker can talk about plans for an orderly border reopening, the final decision rests with USDA officials.


frenchie- I read it now-- First off I'll agree DeBruycker shouldn't be acting as a spokeperson for R-CALF- he's not an officer and with the stink he's raised by being a cattle owner he's not the person to be doing the talking- His comments about what has been happening with the border situation is pretty much true- His opinions about Americans investing money into Canadian cattle may well be right--I can't think of too many people that would want to buy a bunch of Canadian feeders or take any calves into Canada to feed and take the chance of another Canadian BSE case and border closure. Not until the WTO changes the rules on BSE.

As far as what this suit will do- couldn't tell you- I think it could work either way and may reopen the dumping allegations of the previous cases- and if takes the normal route of lawsuits and trade violation actions it could be 6 or 7 years going thru the system.. My understanding of the R-CALF legal fund was to make sure USDA follows all the proper WTO rules and US policy for reopening it -- and to make sure they have restrictions in the opening to safeguard the American herd-- mainly with live cattle.

You know as well as I that they need to do an orderly (over a period of time) step by step opening of the border---to do otherways ---to just drop all restrictions could be a disaster to both countries cattle industries. If ours goes broke, so does yours.
 
My understanding of the R-CALF legal fund was to make sure USDA follows all the proper WTO rules and US policy for reopening it -- and to make sure they have restrictions in the opening to safeguard the American herd-- mainly with live cattle.

You know as well as I that they need to do an orderly (over a period of time) step by step opening of the border---to do otherways ---to just drop all restrictions could be a disaster to both countries cattle industries. If ours goes broke, so does yours.

Oldtimer

Before I start, let me just say that I have the utmost respect for anyone who can stay in law enforcement for the long term. Back when I was contracting, I had a young rookie that used to work for me occasionally. His Dad told me that the hard physical work we were doing was good therapy for him. I'm sure that 'being the law' has its good points, but some things he told me about like handling decomposed bodies, or having to tell a parent there child was run over by a car seem pretty tough to me.
You seem like a reasonable man. The big question is' Is R-CALF truly trying to protect the US from BSE or is this a protectionist stalling tactic.'
If one in a million cases of BSE are naturally occurring, your chances of finding BSE should be 20 times what ours are, so are you really doing the testing. I read an article a few days ago that said you haven't been. The texas cow was just the tip of the iceberg, many cattle had the wrong part of their brain tested or weren't tested at all. At least we are doing our testing even if we are finding the very occasional case. Yet, it is the Canadian beef that is being branded as unsafe. I just don't understand how you can make the conclusion that tested beef that finds the occasional case of BSE is less safe than untested beef that shows signs of having BSE.
 
Oldtimer":2it39cel said:
certherfbeef":2it39cel said:
certified beef- don't know anything mean I've said- everything has been the truth- If you question anything I said , please , please point it out to me so I can explain it---Sometimes the truth is not pretty---the Canadian situation and over 10 year border dispute has not been pretty. Most, except us up here in the border states have been unaware of it until recently.

Oldtimer, certherfbeef is commenting about others that are attacking you.
She isn't questioning anything you said.
 
la4angus":2nkzrqzj said:
Oldtimer":2nkzrqzj said:
certherfbeef":2nkzrqzj said:
certified beef- don't know anything mean I've said- everything has been the truth- If you question anything I said , please , please point it out to me so I can explain it---Sometimes the truth is not pretty---the Canadian situation and over 10 year border dispute has not been pretty. Most, except us up here in the border states have been unaware of it until recently.

Oldtimer, certherfbeef is commenting about others that are attacking you.
She isn't questioning anything you said.

la4angus
And I wasn't just responding to certherfbeef--more of an open statement to everyone-- If you have a question -- I will try to answer it-- you may not like my answer or opinion- but I'll tell you how I see it.

certherfbeef- like your website- wish you were a 1000 miles closer- I think next year I'm going to pick up a hereford bull or two to turn out- I have a neighbor that has some top Line One breeding so will try to get a deal out of him- don't like the idea of horns and dehorning again, since I've about bred that out of my cows, but I do like those black baldy calves.
 
Cattle Rack Rancher":1m5nsezz said:
My understanding of the R-CALF legal fund was to make sure USDA follows all the proper WTO rules and US policy for reopening it -- and to make sure they have restrictions in the opening to safeguard the American herd-- mainly with live cattle.

You know as well as I that they need to do an orderly (over a period of time) step by step opening of the border---to do otherways ---to just drop all restrictions could be a disaster to both countries cattle industries. If ours goes broke, so does yours.

Oldtimer

Before I start, let me just say that I have the utmost respect for anyone who can stay in law enforcement for the long term. Back when I was contracting, I had a young rookie that used to work for me occasionally. His Dad told me that the hard physical work we were doing was good therapy for him. I'm sure that 'being the law' has its good points, but some things he told me about like handling decomposed bodies, or having to tell a parent there child was run over by a car seem pretty tough to me.
You seem like a reasonable man. The big question is' Is R-CALF truly trying to protect the US from BSE or is this a protectionist stalling tactic.'
If one in a million cases of BSE are naturally occurring, your chances of finding BSE should be 20 times what ours are, so are you really doing the testing. I read an article a few days ago that said you haven't been. The texas cow was just the tip of the iceberg, many cattle had the wrong part of their brain tested or weren't tested at all. At least we are doing our testing even if we are finding the very occasional case. Yet, it is the Canadian beef that is being branded as unsafe. I just don't understand how you can make the conclusion that tested beef that finds the occasional case of BSE is less safe than untested beef that shows signs of having BSE.

CattlRackRancher--Thank you for the comments- I definitely never lived a boring life- only problem now is that the years of abuse, misuse, under and over use of my body are catching up to me- just when my mind still thinks I should be able to still do it all.

You are probably right in your thinking that their are some R-CALF members that would like to see the border kept closed-PERIOD. But the organization has recognized that it will open and have been working to get it open with the least amount of economic affect to the US cow/calf man and to guarantee no imported cattle can be absorbed into the US herd. This means a staged and regulated opening. And about there is where the politics start- some groups want it opened one way- others a different way- some want the new COOL law tied into the opening- others want it held off until the US has a mandatory ID system in place- some organizations are dead against mandatory ID-And Canada is kind of the pawn in the middle of all this political posturing.

Did you see the NCBA recruitment show on RFD-TV last week? I'm not much of an NCBA fan anymore- feel like they've sold out to the rich and famous and corporate interests. But they did go a little into the procedure for reopening borders and trade markets. I'd always thought that you just send a US rep to talk to a Canadian or Japanese rep- work it out-SIMPLE-
Not so- Not with governments and trade agreements involved apparently- their are health negotiaters, trade negotiaters, barrels full of attorneys making sure one agreement doesn't infringe on another agreement, politicians assessing political fallout----And then you throw into this mess that all are being lobbied by 100's of organizations like NCBA, R-CALF, CCA, ABP, Farmers Union, Farm Bureau, consumer groups ,etc., etc.--Too bad the two us couldn't meet in an air conditioned lounge (bring Frenchie along too) in Regina over a cold LaBatts Blue- probably could have it worked out and the border reopening in a couple of hours.

I did hear one piece of info that is encouraging--I guess the USDA and others are putting a lot of pressure on the WTO to change their policies on border closures and evaluations of countries after they find a BSE case. That would allow the USDA to change their policies.
 
Oldtimer:

How would you feel about Canadians bringing finished Canadian cattle down to the US on sealed trucks and using your slaughter plants to kill them. This seems to me to be a reasonable compromise to me. What I do know is that if we build all of this expansion into our slaughter plants in Alberta, you guys are going to lose your slaughter capacity in the northern states because that has traditionally been where our cattle were slaughtered. If they build state-of-the-art facilities up here, as soon as your plants become obsolete, they will be closed. The compromise would keep jobs in the US and allow us to get our cattle slaughtered. The other thing I know is that with world beef prices as high as they are, most guys probably aren't keeping enough replacements to build their herd and here we are with an excess of cattle. I would think we will be in the cat-bird seat when the border opens.
 
Cattle Rack Rancher":1wfvkpci said:
Oldtimer:

How would you feel about Canadians bringing finished Canadian cattle down to the US on sealed trucks and using your slaughter plants to kill them. This seems to me to be a reasonable compromise to me. What I do know is that if we build all of this expansion into our slaughter plants in Alberta, you guys are going to lose your slaughter capacity in the northern states because that has traditionally been where our cattle were slaughtered. If they build state-of-the-art facilities up here, as soon as your plants become obsolete, they will be closed. The compromise would keep jobs in the US and allow us to get our cattle slaughtered. The other thing I know is that with world beef prices as high as they are, most guys probably aren't keeping enough replacements to build their herd and here we are with an excess of cattle. I would think we will be in the cat-bird seat when the border opens.

Cattlerack-I've heard some bad stories about the sealed trucks from before-seen some myself- unscrupulous packers jerking out cattle and throwing back in the lots (some stories say they ended up in breeding herds) --heifers calving in the trucks being jerked out- mechanical problems and accidents allowing cattle to be offloaded in the prairie or salesbarns corrals- I've busted several of those seals myself to dump out cattle from a trailer laying on its side. I still would like to have all Canadian cattle hotbranded for ID and segregation- at least for the time being until we figure out what the Japanese and other markets want.

I would prefer that before any expansion of imports is done that the mandatory COOL law -(that was supposed to go into effect this year, but has been delayed until 2006)- be up and running. That would take a lot of the consumer groups concerns away. Could be done if the cattlegroups could agree and USDA wouldn't bend to the will of the packers- But I'm sure R-CALF, FU, FB and those consumer groups are going to play the border as much as they can to try and get it in law.

I really think the area where Canada could build upon-if and this is the big IF- if after the border is reopened (and now it would be to cattle going both ways) the WTO changes the BSE rules, so that both countries are
assured that another BSE finding won't shut down the border---is the area of feedlots and feeding out US cattle. Getting to be so many enviromental and labor regulations down here- that with your grain producing ability, cheaper costs and monetary value you could become a lot larger player in the feedlot game. Many cattle producing states are a lot closer to Canada then they are to Kansas or Texas.
 
Oldtimer said:
I really think the area where Canada could build upon-if and this is the big IF- if after the border is reopened (and now it would be to cattle going both ways) the WTO changes the BSE rules, so that both countries are
assured that another BSE finding won't shut down the border---is the area of feedlots and feeding out US cattle. Getting to be so many enviromental and labor regulations down here- that with your grain producing ability, cheaper costs and monetary value you could become a lot larger player in the feedlot game. Many cattle producing states are a lot closer to Canada then they are to Kansas or Texas.[/quote


Oldtimer quite a vision you have there, we go under.You move in and take over.

Have a great day
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frenchie":622vvxt2 said:
Oldtimer quite a vision you have there, we go under.You move in and take over.
Frenchie, that's not the way I read it. Sounded to me like Oldtimer is talking about a proposal that would benefit you guys by letting you profit by doing what you're really, really good at--feeding cattle.
Oldtimer":622vvxt2 said:
I really think the area where Canada could build upon....

Why don't you read his post again?
 
Texan":3aibu28v said:
frenchie":3aibu28v said:
Oldtimer quite a vision you have there, we go under.You move in and take over.
Frenchie, that's not the way I read it. Sounded to me like Oldtimer is talking about a proposal that would benefit you guys by letting you profit by doing what you're really, really good at--feeding cattle.
Oldtimer":3aibu28v said:
I really think the area where Canada could build upon....

Why don't you read his post again?

You read me right Texan-- Frenchie, you don't have to worry about me moving in and taking over- I have enough problems just feeding out my own calves- But anyway years ago I was discussing this with a former NCBA president- He thought you guys had a great asset available to you with the barley and hay raised up there- more wide open space- and the ever increasing enviromental problems the US feedlots were facing-- some areas were getting too many people that were forcing out the lots.

And from what I've been reading, the WTO and the USDA are working on changing rules or policy which would keep borders and exports from being automatically closed when a BSE case is found-- this would take away some of the apprehension of the investors or ranchers that wanted to retain ownership.
 
OLDTIMER & TEXAN

The point I was trying to make is most of us will be long gone by that time........Most of the feedlots here will be owned by the banks or the packers , if they are not already. :(
 
Great discussion y'all! A lot of opinions to mull over.. not a good situation for Canadians no matter what, and I sure feel for y'all. We had horrible cattle prices during the drought a few years back, but not even close to what you're facing, and always the prospect that rain would come eventually. You don't even have that silver lining to look forward to.

Something that was mentioned in one of the previous posts.. alluding to BSE testing in the US. I've always had that niggling doubt in the back of my mind as well.. not everything that should be tested is being tested. I suspect the biggest reason the US is not about to test every carcass is because there's a good chance they'll actually find a case of BSE.

Also.. does anyone else besides me think the whole BSE scare has been horribly overblown anyway? There are a lot of other things that are a lot more risky then contracting BSE from eating beef.
 
TheBullLady

I think you are right about it being overblown.I heard somewhere that E.Coli is a much bigger threat.



I can appreciate your problems with drought, we just came out of a 5 yr one.

It s kinda of funny here i sit with the best calves in years (thanks to the lush grass) and they are worth diddly.Oh well next yr I hope......... :)
 
Well it is not hard to figure out. It has got to be really desperate! Anything possible that is positive is big news. Gives producers a sense of optimism.
We have been dealing with low grain prices, drought and you name it. Then this hit. So we lost the only thing paying the bills. The number of farmers has been dropping steady. With this everyone is hurting unless you have some job to pay the bills so you can farm on the side. And unless your crazy your better to spend your money on some other type of investment.

There are all types of plans to build slaughter plants, but by the time they cut through all the red tape there might not be anyone left!
 

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