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Alberta cattlemen to sue U.S.

certherfbeef

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Just saw this in the cow/calf weekly

Alberta Cattlemen To Sue U.S. Over Border Closure
This week, a group known as Canadian Cattlemen for Fair Trade (CCFT) announced its filing of "the first of many" Notices of Intent to Submit Claims against the U.S. under Chapter 11 of the North American Free Trade Agreement. The first of these are for about $150-million in claims for the continued U.S. border closure to Canadian live cattle.

The claimants say the U.S. is acting in "an arbitrary and discriminatory manner" to keep the border closed administratively while the U.S. government has declared Canadian beef as safe.

Rick Paskal, a CCFT founding member, says: "The Americans kept telling us the border closure was a temporary measure. We're well into another year and nobody knows when the border will re-open, if ever. It's time to do something about this problem, before it's too late."

Paskal also notes: "We Canadians have invested a lot of money in this industry on the promise of an open border and a single North American cattle market. There's just no good reason for the border to remain closed, when even the scientists have given the 'all clear'."

Paskal says CCFT members are exercising the rights negotiated under NAFTA Chapter 11 to claim damages when another NAFTA government takes actions that give an unfair advantage to its own investors in the North American Free Trade Area. Find out more about the CCFT action at http://www.ccft.info.

Meanwhile, this week, the Canadian Cattlemen's Association (CCA), meeting in Ottawa with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada representatives to discuss contingency and industry adjustment strategies, said a mass cull of Canadian cattle is not a part of those talks.

CCA's strategy covers seven key areas:


Increased slaughter of Canadian cattle with a high priority to increase Canadian processing capacity.


Development of a delayed marketing strategy.


Alternative tax strategies.


Cash advances/loan guarantees/debt restructuring.


Canadian beef usage and export market diversification.


Increased surveillance/slaughter of cattle born prior to the feed ban.


Continued pursuit of all avenues to restore live cattle export trade.
Find a discussion paper with further details at http://www.cattle.ca.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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I expect this is probably going to be the tip of the iceberg. Total losses caused by the border closure are over $2 billion. I expect many others to jump on the bandwagon in this class action suit.
 

BWA

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So how do you guys feel about this ?
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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Without trying to be glib, I think that this is one of these things where desperate times call for desperate measures. We've tried diplomacy and tact but that doesn't seem to be working. What really ticked us off was hearing R-CALF's big tirade on how unsafe Canadian beef is followed by the Texas cow incident and this latest report about the USDA not doing the tests that it had claimed it did. Also, those of us who live close to the border hear the rumors of unsteady looking cows coming off the trucks and going straight back on because they don't want to test anything that may be questionable. The Washington cow seems to be an accidental positive. Of course there are conspiracy theorists who suggest that both the BSE cows have US ties and that this BSE thing may be some kind of R-CALF plot. Truly, in retrospect, it sure looks that way, but I don't think R-CALF is quite that smart or devious. Those of you who follow the Q+A boards can probably see how frustrated some producers are getting over the issue. A big part of it is we gave up our slaughter capacity over the free trade agreement and are in big trouble now because of it (but I've covered that before). The USDA has had 15 months to compose this rule and many feel that is too long, even for a government department. Many are convinced that it is now being used as a tool to keep the border closed. I, personally, question whether the US would honor any ruling by the WTO. Given the US record on softwood lumber and the Canadian Wheat Board, I don't think the US wants to be bound to anything that isn't to their benefit. My opinion is that when you get the lawyers involved, it just causes trouble, but I guess it beats sitting on our butts waiting for something that may never come.
 

BWA

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Cattle Rack Rancher":3l18fznh said:
Without trying to be glib, I think that this is one of these things where desperate times call for desperate measures. We've tried diplomacy and tact but that doesn't seem to be working. What really ticked us off was hearing R-CALF's big tirade on how unsafe Canadian beef is followed by the Texas cow incident and this latest report about the USDA not doing the tests that it had claimed it did. Also, those of us who live close to the border hear the rumors of unsteady looking cows coming off the trucks and going straight back on because they don't want to test anything that may be questionable. The Washington cow seems to be an accidental positive. Of course there are conspiracy theorists who suggest that both the BSE cows have US ties and that this BSE thing may be some kind of R-CALF plot. Truly, in retrospect, it sure looks that way, but I don't think R-CALF is quite that smart or devious. Those of you who follow the Q+A boards can probably see how frustrated some producers are getting over the issue. A big part of it is we gave up our slaughter capacity over the free trade agreement and are in big trouble now because of it (but I've covered that before). The USDA has had 15 months to compose this rule and many feel that is too long, even for a government department. Many are convinced that it is now being used as a tool to keep the border closed. I, personally, question whether the US would honor any ruling by the WTO. Given the US record on softwood lumber and the Canadian Wheat Board, I don't think the US wants to be bound to anything that isn't to their benefit. My opinion is that when you get the lawyers involved, it just causes trouble, but I guess it beats sitting on our butts waiting for something that may never come.

I am Canadian!! I just thought it might tick off some more American producers that were neutral on the issue or may have supported us. That's all!
 

la4angus

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BWA":1eqe3iwc said:
So how do you guys feel about this ?

I feel that the USDA is wrong in their stance.
It will probaly come back to bite us in the butt; but that isn't why I think it's wrong. I think it's morally wrong. I think the Canadian Beef is as safe as any beef produced in the U.S. of A.
 

BWA

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la4angus":1i5lvkdr said:
BWA":1i5lvkdr said:
So how do you guys feel about this ?

I feel that the USDA is wrong in their stance.
It will probaly come back to bite us in the butt; but that isn't why I think it's wrong. I think it's morally wrong. I think the Canadian Beef is as safe as any beef produced in the U.S. of A.

Thanks for the vote of confidence!
 

frenchie

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BWA said:
So how do you guys feel about this ?


I think it is a sad day when Canadian Cattleman sue the U.S ,but desperate times bring desperate acts.My understanding is they felt they had no choice. :(
 

WORANCH

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BWA":1e4kyarp said:
Cattle Rack Rancher":1e4kyarp said:
Without trying to be glib, I think that this is one of these things where desperate times call for desperate measures. We've tried diplomacy and tact but that doesn't seem to be working. What really ticked us off was hearing R-CALF's big tirade on how unsafe Canadian beef is followed by the Texas cow incident and this latest report about the USDA not doing the tests that it had claimed it did. Also, those of us who live close to the border hear the rumors of unsteady looking cows coming off the trucks and going straight back on because they don't want to test anything that may be questionable. The Washington cow seems to be an accidental positive. Of course there are conspiracy theorists who suggest that both the BSE cows have US ties and that this BSE thing may be some kind of R-CALF plot. Truly, in retrospect, it sure looks that way, but I don't think R-CALF is quite that smart or devious. Those of you who follow the Q+A boards can probably see how frustrated some producers are getting over the issue. A big part of it is we gave up our slaughter capacity over the free trade agreement and are in big trouble now because of it (but I've covered that before). The USDA has had 15 months to compose this rule and many feel that is too long, even for a government department. Many are convinced that it is now being used as a tool to keep the border closed. I, personally, question whether the US would honor any ruling by the WTO. Given the US record on softwood lumber and the Canadian Wheat Board, I don't think the US wants to be bound to anything that isn't to their benefit. My opinion is that when you get the lawyers involved, it just causes trouble, but I guess it beats sitting on our butts waiting for something that may never come.

I am Canadian!! I just thought it might tick off some more American producers that were neutral on the issue or may have supported us. That's all!

SUE SUE SUE
Your right it will tick off alot of us . If there is a law suit maybe it will get tied up in court for 10 -15 years , and the border will stay closed, while it's in court. I know that we could have a BSE case anytime and our market fall through the floor, however with lawyers and law-suites it may only make matters worse. It seems that everyone relies on law-suites to get their butts out of jam. To me this is the greenpasture 78 effect If you can't do anything for yourself let someone else pay for it.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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SUE SUE SUE
Your right it will tick off alot of us . If there is a law suit maybe it will get tied up in court for 10 -15 years , and the border will stay closed, while it's in court. I know that we could have a BSE case anytime and our market fall through the floor, however with lawyers and law-suites it may only make matters worse. It seems that everyone relies on law-suites to get their butts out of jam. To me this is the greenpasture 78 effect If you can't do anything for yourself let someone else pay for it.

Well, if you can give us any indication of when or if the border might open, it would be greatly appreciated. Everytime the Canadians have asked for the last 15 months, the answer has been 'soon'. I don't like the idea of lawyers getting involved either but the Americans have never been shy about taking Canadians to the WTO court. I think you're up to 14 challenges against the Canadian Wheat Board and at least 5 or six on softwood lumber. Alot of us are beginning to feel that the Americans are trying to break our beef industry and by the recent R-CALF actions, those suspicions seem to be confirmed. How much longer would you like us to wait and what would you propose we do?
 

la4angus

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[/quote] By Cattle Rack Rancher

Well, if you can give us any indication of when or if the border might open, it would be greatly appreciated. Everytime the Canadians have asked for the last 15 months, the answer has been 'soon'. I don't like the idea of lawyers getting involved either but the Americans have never been shy about taking Canadians to the WTO court. I think you're up to 14 challenges against the Canadian Wheat Board and at least 5 or six on softwood lumber. Alot of us are beginning to feel that the Americans are trying to break our beef industry and by the recent R-CALF actions, those suspicions seem to be confirmed. How much longer would you like us to wait and what would you propose we do?[/quote]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally I would like to see the border opened tomorrow. I would like for the Canadians and U.S. of A to start testing every aniimal that our customers want tested. Let the sound science people not test and eat theirs. Test the rest of it. No one is going to contact BSE without eating the Brain or meat that is in contact with the spinal cord. While our bureaucrats are fiddle farting around they are costing the U.S and Canadian ranchers and feeders billions of dollars. I say test the cattle and get export markets opened up and we can all survive. The Customer is Always Right.
 
A

Anonymous

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Personally I would like to see the border opened tomorrow. I would like for the Canadians and U.S. of A to start testing every aniimal that our customers want tested. Let the sound science people not test and eat theirs. Test the rest of it. No one is going to contact BSE without eating the Brain or meat that is in contact with the spinal cord. While our bureaucrats are fiddle farting around they are costing the U.S and Canadian ranchers and feeders billions of dollars. I say test the cattle and get export markets opened up and we can all survive. The Customer is Always Right.

I agree 100%. I've heard that if these tests were done in volume, the price could be as little as $12 per head. It seems ridiculous to me that we are losing thousands of dollars over a few measly dollars that it would cost to test. I think the Americans would have to take the lead on this, though as I know that the Canadian government would be reluctant to step on US toes in this manner.
 

WORANCH

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Cattle Rack Rancher":3jzb8mrc said:
SUE SUE SUE
Your right it will tick off alot of us . If there is a law suit maybe it will get tied up in court for 10 -15 years , and the border will stay closed, while it's in court. I know that we could have a BSE case anytime and our market fall through the floor, however with lawyers and law-suites it may only make matters worse. It seems that everyone relies on law-suites to get their butts out of jam. To me this is the greenpasture 78 effect If you can't do anything for yourself let someone else pay for it.

Well, if you can give us any indication of when or if the border might open, it would be greatly appreciated. Everytime the Canadians have asked for the last 15 months, the answer has been 'soon'. I don't like the idea of lawyers getting involved either but the Americans have never been shy about taking Canadians to the WTO court. I think you're up to 14 challenges against the Canadian Wheat Board and at least 5 or six on softwood lumber. Alot of us are beginning to feel that the Americans are trying to break our beef industry and by the recent R-CALF actions, those suspicions seem to be confirmed. How much longer would you like us to wait and what would you propose we do?


I think every cow needs to be tested an ID system in place, and COOL needs to be inacted here in the U.S.
Are Canadians trying to export to other countries besides the U. S. ?
If not, why not? Are you going to sue every country that won't import your beef. Or just the good old US...???
 

la4angus

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Cattle Rack Rancher":2jk2znvn said:
The above post is mine. Forgot to log in.

I have wondered for a long time why Canada doesn't take the lead in this and
test every bovine slaughtered there. get your export markets open The export market is wide open if for high choice and prime beef. If the USDA wants to sit on its butts and let the American producers take a beating there is nothing that the U.S. producer can do about it. But the Canadians don't have to not test unless you have the same problem with your government bureaucrats as we do in the U.S. of A
 

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CANADIAN COWMEN SAID HINDERING BSE TEST
U.S. ranchers have long joked about "shoot, shovel and shut up" when it comes to finding officially "endangered" species on their property, but now there is a report that some Canadian ranchers are doing exactly that rather than face testing for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, BSE or mad cow disease.


FROM THR LIVESTOCK WEEKLY....
 

frenchie

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WORANCH said:
CANADIAN COWMEN SAID HINDERING BSE TEST
U.S. ranchers have long joked about "shoot, shovel and shut up" when it comes to finding officially "endangered" species on their property, but now there is a report that some Canadian ranchers are doing exactly that rather than face testing for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, BSE or mad cow disease.


FROM THR LIVESTOCK WEEKLY....



woranch

A guy going under won,t bother spending the 50 or 60 dollars for deadstock removal. Guys here have sold a load of cows, had one or two condemned and got a $45.00 bill for freight out of the deal.Cull cow price is from .03 lb to .15 a lb
 

Oldtimer

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WORANCH":2aaa3md9 said:
Cattle Rack Rancher":2aaa3md9 said:
SUE SUE SUE
Your right it will tick off alot of us . If there is a law suit maybe it will get tied up in court for 10 -15 years , and the border will stay closed, while it's in court. I know that we could have a BSE case anytime and our market fall through the floor, however with lawyers and law-suites it may only make matters worse. It seems that everyone relies on law-suites to get their butts out of jam. To me this is the greenpasture 78 effect If you can't do anything for yourself let someone else pay for it.

Well, if you can give us any indication of when or if the border might open, it would be greatly appreciated. Everytime the Canadians have asked for the last 15 months, the answer has been 'soon'. I don't like the idea of lawyers getting involved either but the Americans have never been shy about taking Canadians to the WTO court. I think you're up to 14 challenges against the Canadian Wheat Board and at least 5 or six on softwood lumber. Alot of us are beginning to feel that the Americans are trying to break our beef industry and by the recent R-CALF actions, those suspicions seem to be confirmed. How much longer would you like us to wait and what would you propose we do?


I think every cow needs to be tested an ID system in place, and COOL needs to be inacted here in the U.S.
Are Canadians trying to export to other countries besides the U. S. ?
If not, why not? Are you going to sue every country that won't import your beef. Or just the good old US...???

You just hit the nail on the head- I agree-- All a suit will do is P.O. some supporters -- If we were the only country not taking Canadian beef, I could see where you had a stand- But right now, NO Country is taking Canadian beef. I've often wondered if they even have anyone in the government that does trade negotiations or have you just given over that position to the US also?
 
A

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This is getting god damn sickening, hearing our market going down every day. And with the fall run of calves and yearlings starting soon, prices are going to tumble worse. I have heard that the reason Canada won't test every animal is due to the fact the US wont test every animal. And the USDA doesnt want Canada to test every animal because this will make them look bad. There needs to be some drastic changes take place to open the border to our cattle. Maybe if our beef is unsafe, maybe our water, power, and oil is unsafe. Block the border to these every day essentials and listen to the people who are holding up opening the border to beef , whine about not having power, or bottled water for their family. The way things are going in Canada if your a cattle rancher we are soon not going to be able to afford these bear essentials so why should these other bast***s have them. I think every Canadian rancher on here can agree with me, that we are sick of getting th email and only ever getting bills you know you cant pay because you have no money. Our cattle are safe , NOW OPEN THE DAMN BORDER...........
 

la4angus

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Anonymous":1asbc4k7 said:
I have heard that the reason Canada won't test every animal is due to the fact the US wont test every animal. And the USDA doesnt want Canada to test every animal because this will make them look bad. ..

Don't get me wrong; but why should Canada give a mean craap if the U.S. wants Canada to test every animal, because it will make the U.S. look bad.
It's the Canadian Ranchers and Cattle Feeders that are taking a beating, not the U.S. gov bureacrats. I say do what you need to do as long is it is legal for your survival, and piss on what the U.S. gov thinks about it. They are not helping to do anything but nury you.

Frenchie you are 100% correct:

(frenchies quote)
A guy going under won,t bother spending the 50 or 60 dollars for deadstock removal. Guys here have sold a load of cows, had one or two condemned and got a $45.00 bill for freight out of the deal.Cull cow price is from .03 lb to .15 a lb
 

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