AI'ing heifers (cervix)

[HOSS]

I AI'd 2 head last night for a friend. A mature cow and a heifer. As usual the cow was easy for me to do...all of 45 seconds. The heifer was another story. It took me several minutes to get the gun inserted through the cervix. Most folks say heifers are easier but that is not what I am experiencing. The cervix on most of the heifers that I have bred have been very small and tight against the pelvic floor. I have a very hard time manipulating the cervix around the gun because I cannot get a good hold on the cervix. It feels like they are attached to the pelvic floor. It finally happens but only after taking way too much time than it should. On mature cows I can hold the cervix with my hand wrapped around it and manipulate it very easy but on heifers I find that I have what feels like only the ability to shift it side to side very slightly using my index finger and thumb is a slight pinching motion. I am not sure if I am describing it well but I think those that do alot of AI will know what I am talking about. I guess my question is what techniques have you found that works best on thAT small, tightly attached cervix? Is it a practice and at what point does this become easier? I have only AI'd about 40 head since AI school and it seems that I have got the hang of cows but have to work too hard on heifers.

 

[KNERSIE]

Every now and then even the most experienced AI tech get humiliated by a heifer, it doesn't really matter how long you take as long as the pistolette stays inside the heifer the semen will stay at optimum temperature anyway. I have found that by stimulating the clitorus to make the heifer contract it relaxes the muscles of the pelvic floor for a few seconds making it easier to get hold of the cervix. Not sure what I said makes sense, but I think you'll get the general idea.

 

[dun]

Once they relax it's a lot eaiser to get ahold of the cervix and hold it in your hand. Calm, soothing voice and gently messaging the rectal tract helps them to relax

 

[novaman]

Don't worry Hoss, I think there are more of us having the same problems as you than you may realize. My Select Sires rep told me the same thing about heifers being easier than cows. Like you, I have a heck of a time with them. There are a few that only take a couple minutes but others have lasted for 20 minutes!!! The heifers may settle "easier" but getting the semen there certainly isn't! I've even had some heifers with a cervix so small that I can't get through the last ring. Anybody else have this issue? I've had two this year and I'm thinking my only resort is letting them with the clean up bull to get them bred the first time. It seems the gun is just to large of diameter to fit through the last of the cervix? Frustrating. Even though I want to get them bred, I dread seeing a heifer standing :help: .

 

[dun]

Don't worry Hoss, I think there are more of us having the same problems as you than you may realize. My Select Sires rep told me the same thing about heifers being easier than cows. Like you, I have a heck of a time with them. There are a few that only take a couple minutes but others have lasted for 20 minutes!!! The heifers may settle "easier" but getting the semen there certainly isn't! I've even had some heifers with a cervix so small that I can't get through the last ring. Anybody else have this issue? I've had two this year and I'm thinking my only resort is letting them with the clean up bull to get them bred the first time. It seems the gun is just to large of diameter to fit through the last of the cervix? Frustrating. Even though I want to get them bred, I dread seeing a heifer standing :help: .

I've had a couple that I couldn;t get through the 3rd ring and they still settled. 1 ring is doubtful but 2 rings close the third hasn;t been a problem with heifers. Cows you need to get all the way.

 

[TexasBred]

Don't worry Hoss, I think there are more of us having the same problems as you than you may realize. My Select Sires rep told me the same thing about heifers being easier than cows. Like you, I have a heck of a time with them. There are a few that only take a couple minutes but others have lasted for 20 minutes!!! The heifers may settle "easier" but getting the semen there certainly isn't! I've even had some heifers with a cervix so small that I can't get through the last ring. Anybody else have this issue? I've had two this year and I'm thinking my only resort is letting them with the clean up bull to get them bred the first time. It seems the gun is just to large of diameter to fit through the last of the cervix? Frustrating. Even though I want to get them bred, I dread seeing a heifer standing :help: .

He probably meant to say something along the line of heifers conceiving easier than older cattle. They're darn sure not always easy to breed tho.

 

[KNERSIE]

Don't worry Hoss, I think there are more of us having the same problems as you than you may realize. My Select Sires rep told me the same thing about heifers being easier than cows. Like you, I have a heck of a time with them. There are a few that only take a couple minutes but others have lasted for 20 minutes!!! The heifers may settle "easier" but getting the semen there certainly isn't! I've even had some heifers with a cervix so small that I can't get through the last ring. Anybody else have this issue? I've had two this year and I'm thinking my only resort is letting them with the clean up bull to get them bred the first time. It seems the gun is just to large of diameter to fit through the last of the cervix? Frustrating. Even though I want to get them bred, I dread seeing a heifer standing :help: .

I have found that instead of depositing half the semen just inside the uterus and pulling back to leave the other half in the cervix if you do it the other way round it often lubricates the last ring enough for the gun to slip through.

 

[dun]

Don't worry Hoss, I think there are more of us having the same problems as you than you may realize. My Select Sires rep told me the same thing about heifers being easier than cows. Like you, I have a heck of a time with them. There are a few that only take a couple minutes but others have lasted for 20 minutes!!! The heifers may settle "easier" but getting the semen there certainly isn't! I've even had some heifers with a cervix so small that I can't get through the last ring. Anybody else have this issue? I've had two this year and I'm thinking my only resort is letting them with the clean up bull to get them bred the first time. It seems the gun is just to large of diameter to fit through the last of the cervix? Frustrating. Even though I want to get them bred, I dread seeing a heifer standing :help: .

I have found that instead of depositing half the semen just inside the uterus and pulling back to leave the other half in the cervix if you do it the other way round it often lubricates the last ring enough for the gun to slip through.

I've never done the half and half deal. I've alwasy deposited it all just past the 3rd ring or at worst just before the 3rd ring if I couldn;t get through it

 

[TexasBred]

Wife says she basically puts a third in each horn and then the last third in the cervix on the way out.

 

[HOSS]

Wife says she basically puts a third in each horn and then the last third in the cervix on the way out.

TB / Kenersie,

This sounds like an interesting approach. Do you feel like the conception rate is higher doing it this way and if so what causes it?

dun,

When you deposit the semen in front of the 3rd ring what % decrease have you seen in conception rate or is it negligible? Although I have not done it yet I have heard that conception is still possible (30%?) by depositing the semen in the vaginal tract. I have elected not to dump a $20 straw of semen this way if I can't get through like I think I should. I have just kept working at it until I made it. I now have a torn rotater cuff in my left shoulder so those prolonged episodes are getting more painfull and I am afraid that might be my only option in the event that this happens as my shoulder gets worse.

 

[dun]

I can;t really say what the difference is. I've only ever done it 3 times and the settled. I've dumped it on the mouth of the cervix twice and they didn;t settle. I deposited it once inside the first ring and she didn;t settle, the second year I got through the second ring and she settle. This year she almost sucked the gun out of my hand it slid so far into the uterus.

 

[hopalong]

I was told in my refresher class that you should not penitrate the third ring because of the chance of infection, (had not heard this before) done 23 in April dropping at the entrance to the third ring 18 settled. re bred 3 settled 1 did not took her to the barn
Any one else hear about this possibility of infection? or was the instrtuctor just overly cautious.
actually I thought the 18 of 23 was a darned good average for heifers.

 

[dun]

I was told in my refresher class that you should not penitrate the third ring because of the chance of infection, (had not heard this before) done 23 in April dropping at the entrance to the third ring 18 settled. re bred 3 settled 1 did not took her to the barn
Any one else hear about this possibility of infection? or was the instrtuctor just overly cautious.
actually I thought the 18 of 23 was a darned good average for heifers.

I've only been at it for 30 odd years and never had an infection and unless there is a problem I've alwasy deposited it in the uterus and not the cervix. I would think that if whatever would cause the infection was in the cervix that it would probably end up in the uterus anyway

 

[kickinbull]

I trained for AI 30 some years ago. My wife 20. I was taught to place semen just at the edge of 3rd ring. She, places 1/2 at 3rd ring and other 1/2 while pulling out. I am not sure which is better. I think that with the half deposited while pulling out may come out of the gun and like children run the wrong way just because everyone else is, but then turn back and run out of steam. Once just before she was getting ready to AI a cow, I was holding the tail, told her to stop, I reached under and massaged the cows udder, then told her the cow was in the mood now. lol. She didn't think it was as funny as I did. One thing that I do, is, once the semen is deposited, I slowly pull my arm out massaging as I go. I think it helps.

 

[dun]

I trained for AI 30 some years ago. My wife 20. I was taught to place semen just at the edge of 3rd ring. She, places 1/2 at 3rd ring and other 1/2 while pulling out. I am not sure which is better. I think that with the half deposited while pulling out may come out of the gun and like children run the wrong way just because everyone else is, but then turn back and run out of steam. Once just before she was getting ready to AI a cow, I was holding the tail, told her to stop, I reached under and massaged the cows udder, then told her the cow was in the mood now. lol. She didn't think it was as funny as I did. One thing that I do, is, once the semen is deposited, I slowly pull my arm out massaging as I go. I think it helps.

It's kind of funny the different techniques that have been taught. Most of it is pretty much upto the instructor. I was taght to manipulate the cervix over the pipette, I watched the ABS rep and he pushes the pipette through the cervix. If they settle it really doesn;t make a hill of beans what methods/techniques are used. A calf on the ground won;t care (neither will the cow) how it was done.

 

[KNERSIE]

This year she almost sucked the gun out of my hand it slid so far into the uterus.

I find that more problematic than AI-ing heifers with small cervixes, especially in old cows where the cervix is so big my hand don't fit around it to hold it properly, then often guessing where the tip of the pistolette is is the only option. Atleast with heifers you KNOW you are through the cervix or if you're not sure you are likely not.

Dun, my dad did his training in the '70s and they taught him to deposit it all in the uterus just past the third ring, I did mine in the '90s and was told to do the half and half deal, a friend of mine did his training the other day and he got taught techniques to expell air from the rectum that I have never even heard mentioned before. I guess every trainer add his own twist to the deal.

Two years ago after I had the Guillaine Barre the vet had to AI for me, two heifers came in heat a day after the timed AI so my dad had to AI for the first time in 20 years and they both settled so I guess its like riding a bicycle....

 

[dun]

Two years ago after I had the Guillaine Barre the vet had to AI for me, two heifers came in heat a day after the timed AI so my dad had to AI for the first time in 20 years and they both settled so I guess its like riding a bicycle....

I had about 10 years that I didn;t AI (no cattle, long story). The first one I bred after the lay off was a heifer and it felt like I was groping in the blind (no pun intended) The next day good Ol Granny came in. She has the external end of the cervix like a cauliflower. Bred her no problem and everything was familiar as an old pair od=f shoes. The first one settled as did Granny. But Granny was the one that got my confidence that I still knew what I was doing and feeling. Went on to a 89.7% first service conception rate that year

 

[pdfangus]

I was told in my refresher class that you should not penitrate the third ring because of the chance of infection, (had not heard this before) done 23 in April dropping at the entrance to the third ring 18 settled. re bred 3 settled 1 did not took her to the barn
Any one else hear about this possibility of infection? or was the instrtuctor just overly cautious.
actually I thought the 18 of 23 was a darned good average for heifers.

I will take 78% first service all day long.
I have never heard about this not going thru the cervix stuff. A heifer is no more prone to infection than a cow. I adopted sheat covers when I found them and alway use them to address ick issues.

I have been breeding for 35 years.....
so now I like to breed heifers and to me they are easier than cows.....
but that is with 35 years and thousands of services.
It did not get that way easy.

One of the first groups I ever bred was big group of heifers and I was having a terrible time. I was having bad self doubt issues. then I realized that it was this one group and the other group was much easier. then the cows were a snap. Then the boss bred a few one weekend and I learned from a coworker that he also had a terrible time with heifers from the big group. My confidence rebounded and the boss later in the year was bragging on his cow mans AI percentages.

We never did figure out why that group was so hard to breed. the conceptions were good and they made good cows but those first services were tough.

 

[dun]

I was told in my refresher class that you should not penitrate the third ring because of the chance of infection, (had not heard this before) done 23 in April dropping at the entrance to the third ring 18 settled. re bred 3 settled 1 did not took her to the barn
Any one else hear about this possibility of infection? or was the instrtuctor just overly cautious.
actually I thought the 18 of 23 was a darned good average for heifers.

I will take 78% first service all day long.
I have never heard about this not going thru the cervix stuff. A heifer is no more prone to infection than a cow. I adopted sheat covers when I found them and alway use them to address ick issues.

I have been breeding for 35 years.....
so now I like to breed heifers and to me they are easier than cows.....
but that is with 35 years and thousands of services.
It did not get that way easy.

One of the first groups I ever bred was big group of heifers and I was having a terrible time. I was having bad self doubt issues. then I realized that it was this one group and the other group was much easier. then the cows were a snap. Then the boss bred a few one weekend and I learned from a coworker that he also had a terrible time with heifers from the big group. My confidence rebounded and the boss later in the year was bragging on his cow mans AI percentages.

We never did figure out why that group was so hard to breed. the conceptions were good and they made good cows but those first services were tough.

Back when they were the new big deal I bred 2 herds of Ankina. The guys were partners and one herd was tough to breed and the other was a snap. All the same genetics so I laid it to temperment. They even shared common working facilitys, a long alleyway that I had to climb over the top rail to breed a cow then climb out, run in another cow and climb back over again, repeat about 75 times.

 

[TexasBred]

pdf wouldn't good sanitary procedures pretty much eleminate the chances of bacterial infections?