AI - Worth it or not for us?

[SouthernGent]

Hi,
My father, brother and I are getting back into the cattle business after being out 2 yrs. We will start w.5-10 head, probably Gelbvieh, angus or cross between these two and grow from here. We will increase the herd by buying a few head each year, but not getting bigger than 40-50 head, if we get that big. We have thought about doing AI, understanding that even with that we would need to keep a bull on the place all the time for misses. In our circumstance, will AI be worth the expense/effort, or would we be better served to invest in a quality semen tested bull? We currently do not have any experience or equipment for AI.

Thanks,

SG

 

[bandit80]

Hi,
My father, brother and I are getting back into the cattle business after being out 2 yrs. We will start w.5-10 head, probably Gelbvieh, angus or cross between these two and grow from here. We will increase the herd by buying a few head each year, but not getting bigger than 40-50 head, if we get that big. We have thought about doing AI, understanding that even with that we would need to keep a bull on the place all the time for misses. In our circumstance, will AI be worth the expense/effort, or would we be better served to invest in a quality semen tested bull? We currently do not have any experience or equipment for AI.

Thanks,

SG

Depends on several things that you need to decide. You need to look at labor involved, and cost per cow exposed.

I will use 10 cows because that is easier math.

If you AI, you will have around $20 per straw of semen, thus $200. Since you don't have any experience or equipment to AI, you will have additional expenses to hire someone to do it, or take a course on AI and buy the necessary equipment. If you have to pay someone $10/hd to AI, all of a sudden you are up to $300. Also with AI, there is increased labor with heat detection, and if you use synchronization protocols, increased expense.

You should be able to buy a good bull for around $2,000. If you get 60% of your cows AI'ed, that bull will need to cover the other 40%. Thus you only get 4 calves out of a $2000 bull each year. If you use the bull for 5 breeding seasons, you will get approximately 20 calves from him. So, essentially, you are paying $100 for each calf. If you do not AI and use the bull only for 5 years, you would get 50 calves out of him, (assuming every cow gets bred every year) thus lowering your cost for each calf to $40. Also with a bull, there is no increase in labor. He knows what to do, just turn him loose.

With a smaller number of cows, I believe it would be more cost effective to buy a good bull vs. spending the money to get set up for AI. As your herd size increases, it may be cost effective to utilize AI and a clean up bull, because you will be getting more calves out of the bull each year.

 

[TexasBred]

IF you had AI experience I'd definitely AI but since you have no experience or equipment I'd go with a good bull. Even up to 25-30 head I'd still use the bull. You can get your cattle bred and pretty much always get your money back on a good bull if you decide to sell him.

 

[bigbull338]

since you know nothing of AI.id go with the bull.because he can get them bred in a timely manner.an for you to AI youd have to take an AI class.wich would cost some big bucks.get a semen tank.buy semen an supplies an maintain the semen tank.then youd have to cheack for heats morning an evening then breed the cows.wich means you have to have good pens to work an breed them in.all told the bull would be cheaper.

 

[TexasBred]

since you know nothing of AI.id go with the bull.because he can get them bred in a timely manner.an for you to AI youd have to take an AI class.wich would cost some big bucks.get a semen tank.buy semen an supplies an maintain the semen tank.then youd have to cheack for heats morning an evening then breed the cows.wich means you have to have good pens to work an breed them in.all told the bull would be cheaper.

And always do your AI learning on somebody else's cows. ;-)

 

[Susie David]

We've been bouncing back and forth with AI and bulls for some time now and here's what I've learned.
For less than 10 cows it is less expensive to AI.
With a bull you do not have to worry about "the window", the bull takes care of that.
Not every AI takes, though we have had better than average settled cows...90%.
Alot less hassle all around using a bull.
Can select the genetics with AI...Herfs to herfs...Lims to Lims...angus to angus
Can have your falicities beat up with bulls, have to get a mellow one.

We are lucky with the 2yr old Lim bull that we have now, he is the most gentle animal that I've ever owned and he throws nice calves. He eats 30 # a day and with current hay prices I can't afford to feed him so he is worth more to me in meat packages than on the hoof...almost twice as much as if I took him to the sale. 55 cents in the ring verses 2.50 on the rail.
We did keep one real nice calf a bull, just in case that we rebuild the herd and the cows are rebred.
Just don't know if we'll keep all of them.
And thats my two bits worth...asked for or not. DMc

 

[dun]

We have thought about doing AI, understanding that even with that we would need to keep a bull on the place all the time for misses. In our circumstance, will AI be worth the expense/effort, or would we be better served to invest in a quality semen tested bull? We currently do not have any experience or equipment for AI.

Thanks,

SG

Needing a clean up bull is hogwash!
One of you go to school and learn to AI. The school is fairly pricey sometimes, but not only will you learn the skills to AI but you typically learn more about cows then someone that hasn;t been to the school.
Tank, school, AI supplys, filling the tank regularly and semen are the dollar costs. There is more labor, and it has to be labor dedicated to doing the job right. Not only the actual breeding but the heat detection is critical to success.

 

[TexasBred]

Not only the actual breeding but the heat detection is critical to success[/b].

You hit the nail on the head there. Timing is everything and if you don't inseminate in that window you might as well shoot it on the ground.

 

[novatech]

In addition to Dun's post, once you have acquired the initial equipment the expense is minimal and you do not have to feed it. With AI you can choose a different bull every year or for each cow. You can choose from the very best not just a good $2000 dollar bull. By keeping back the best of the heifers as replacements you can expect to end up with excellent cattle not just good.

 

[Earl Thigpen]

Why not take them to the vet to get AI'd? If you've only got 4 or 5 cows this shouldn't be much of a chore and the vets in my area are reasonable at testing (checking heat), actually performing the service and "boarding" for a couple of days. That way you don't have to buy the equipment OR the bull and your chance of it taking should go up using a professional to do the service.

 

[SouthernGent]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your input, I really appreciate it. Got alot to consider.

Thanks again,
SG

 

[TexasBred]

Why not take them to the vet to get AI'd? If you've only got 4 or 5 cows this shouldn't be much of a chore and the vets in my area are reasonable at testing (checking heat), actually performing the service and "boarding" for a couple of days. That way you don't have to buy the equipment OR the bull and your chance of it taking should go up using a professional to do the service.

Earl I just never had much faith in a vet for this type service. Many of the semen company reps are qualified to AI, preg check and some can even synchronize and do ET work and if you buy semen from them I'm sure they would help you "if they are qualified".

 

[Arkieman]

Another scenario, we had heifers and I sure didn't want calving problems. Using a young (unproven) bull you never know. With AI, I could use a superior bull with PROVEN calving ease. Some of the heifers we are considering keeping. We used CIDRs and a sychronized method. Sure was nice having the calves come w/i a week of each other. We got 4 out of 6 using this method. I borrowed a friend's bull for cleanup. By the way, we had no calving issues w/ the heifers..

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I went to ABS sponsered AI school cost 500.00 got 250.00 back in semen and AI supplies. First year didn't do to good second year better third year maybe i do better. Just because you go to school don't mean your going to stick ever cow. So If it were me i would still go to AI school because you learn alot more than you would think, but i would still buy the bull to make sure i got a calf crop. Try to AI them first then use the bull. the more you do the betteryou will get.

 

[SouthernGent]

Goodmorning,

Thanks for last night's posts, appreciate it.

There is a farmer approx. 6 mi. from our place- not a close relationship, but know who he is and have bought hay from him in the past. He AI's all of his(approx. 100 head) with a clean up bull in the fields also. We also have a 3rd cousin lives 60 mi. from our place- think they AI most if not all of theirs. We are in the process of trying to get together with them and see their operation. As small as we are, I would like to make an agreement(if possible) with the neighbor 6 mi. away to come and do ours, as small as we are.
don't know, just thinking out loud.

Again I appreciate all of y'alls feedback. Found this board by accident, lots of info. available.

SG

 

[TXBobcat]

How about leasing a bull? Decide when you want your calves and lease a bull 10-11 months prior to that. Run him with your cows for 60 - 90 days and send him home. Saves maintaining a bull all year around, and no hassles with AI'ing.

 

[RVF]

For me it just comes around to the economics of the situation. I do not know how to AI, but have a technician close. Last time I used him he was $40 per head. I am sure he is more now with the price of gas. Semen costs a minimum of $20 and the bulls I use usually cost in the $50 range. That brings every service to $90 with approximately a 75 to 80% conception rate. I will run a bull with 40 to 50 cows, so to breed 40 cows AI would cost me $3600 per year for 1 service per cow. If I was able to get cheaper AI rates ($20) and used $20 semen, that would bring me to $1600 per year for 40 cows. If it costs $600 per year to keep a bull, and you use the bull for 4 years you can spend $4000 to $12000 for the bull.

I can not afford to use AI, since $12000 would by me any AI bull whose semen is worth $50 per dose. The only reason I use AI is because I did not purchase a bull I wanted to use later or I am using imported semen.

 

[TexasBred]

RVF $40 a head sounds pretty steep to me. Course if he has to travel quite a ways and only breeds one cow I could understand it. I guess i didn't realize how lucky I am...I'm married to my AI Tech. ;-)

 

[Victoria]

One other thing - if you AI you could get some really nice heifers to keep and add to your herd. Plus, there are a lot of bulls who are not happy staying home with just five cows.

 

[SouthernGent]

Hi,

We have purchased 6 cow/calf pairs and 3 moma cows - all registered Gelbvieh. They were delivered this past Saturday. At this point, we are leaning toward going partners on a bull and not doing AI. Based on our circumstances, we feel like this is going to be the best route for us.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Thanks,

SG