AI VS Natural breeding

[Angus Cattle Shower]

Which do you prefer, and why?

 

[dun]

AI is all we do and have always done, don;t like bulls

dun

 

[southpaw]

What kind of conception % do you get using AI. We've always used natural service but I'm going to AI some next summer.

 

[J]

I'm going with IT DEPENDS.

On the: size of your operation, amount of time you can put into it, money (everything comes down to money), experience, ability, knowledge and probably a few more I can't think of right now.

Size: AI would be better for the small producer, since you wouldn't have to maintain a bull.
Time: If you can't afford to take the time to AI then you could buy a bull and for all practical purposes the job is done, with little to no time of yours taken up
Money: for the bull (quality), or AI'ing class, tools and materials.
experience/knowledge/ability: well you can figure that one out for yourself.

 

[hillbilly]

I think thats one job you shouldn't take away from
the Male of any species.

Plus I'm lazy & ignorant.

hillbilly

 

[Farmgirl]

Cheaper than a bull and safer for us too.

 

[Frankie]

We've been total AI for years. We can use the "best" bulls in the breed at a reasonable cost and can select bulls to match a cow's particular weakness or strength.

 

[Farmgirl]

AI isn't cheap when you consider all costs. It is really a pain, but neither is buying a bull, feeding him, putting up with him getting in with heifers too early, the risk of him hurting someone, etc. My 2 cents.

 

[CopeMan]

AI is all we do and have always done, don;t like bulls

dun

I thought you used bulls when you ran cattle in California?

 

[Victoria]

We've never AI'd before this coming year will be our first go at it so I guess we'll see!

 

[CattleAnnie]

Due to the way we run our cattle (large pastures from June to October), having bulls are the only viable options for us.

Bulls are a neccesary pain when it comes to repairing fences, and breaking up a bull-fight on horseback when you're moving the cattle isn't much fun, but they are efficient and seem to be able to get the job done without any extra labour on our part.

This being said, I really enjoy reading the posts about AI. It has been very educational, as I have absolutely no experience on raising cattle with that much intensive human effort, and really appreciate all the information that those with experience in that area share on these boards.

Thanks again!


Take care.

 

[dun]

AI is all we do and have always done, don;t like bulls

dun

I thought you used bulls when you ran cattle in California?

Only the canyon cows that were owned in partnership. We didn;t have to mess with a bull much since they were basicilly range cows and bulls and managed themselves.
Those that we owned by ourselves have alwasy been AIed.

dun

 

[rwtherefords]

We don't A.I. and don't plan to A.I. Too expensive. I have noticed that temperment is VERY heritable. If you A.I. you can't really know what type of temperment you'll be breeding into your calves. I've also noticed that most of the issues people have with bulls are temperment related. I don't have those problems with the bulls I keep.

Besides, many who A.I. keep a "clean-up bull" anyway. No cost savings of eliminating keeping a bull, but added expense of A.I.ing. A.I. isn't for my place, yet.

 

[6M Ranch]

My two cents. Cost isn't expensive. More work, but cost shouldn't be a factor. If you synchronize, shots + CIDR for example, will run about $10/hd. AI tech charges $50 for each trip out + semen + $10/hd. For example, if 10 head come in the same day, your total costs would be $25/hd. + semen. Semen can run from $8 up over $1000. The semen we use runs from $30 to $90 typically. We average 80% on the first try. If you only calve one season, a bull will only service 30 - 50 cows. Then if you buy a new bull every two years, the costs could be cheaper by AI'ing. Theoretically better calves, should return a lot more on your investment.

 

[rwtherefords]

My two cents. Cost isn't expensive. More work, but cost shouldn't be a factor. If you synchronize, shots + CIDR for example, will run about $10/hd. AI tech charges $50 for each trip out + semen + $10/hd. For example, if 10 head come in the same day, your total costs would be $25/hd. + semen. Semen can run from $8 up over $1000. The semen we use runs from $30 to $90 typically. We average 80% on the first try. If you only calve one season, a bull will only service 30 - 50 cows. Then if you buy a new bull every two years, the costs could be cheaper by AI'ing. Theoretically better calves, should return a lot more on your investment.

Since I don't A.I. my cattle, my purpose for this post is to learn something (not be argumentative).

Let's just use an example of a small herd of 25 registered cows for the purpose of responding to my questions. Let's assume that you can get excellent quality registered bulls from a local non-big name breeder for $1200 - $1500. Let's assume 100% annual calving success and that 1/2 of your calf crop are bulls which you make into steers and don't register, but you register the 12 remaining females. Let's also assume you can get semen for $25 a straw and have a $75 certificate fee for registration. Now for the questions:

1) Do you keep a clean-up bull also?

2) How many trips do you have to pay for the A.I. tech to come to the farm to get 100% of your cows bred? (considering an 80% success ratio)

3) In the above scenario, what would your expected cost be to A.I. and register your calf crop for 1 year?

4) What would be the total projected cost be to A.I. and register 2 calf crops per the above description?

When going the route with a bull, you can sell him at around 2000 pounds, and at 50 cents a pound, recover $1000 of your initial bull investment. Second, if you own the registered bull, there are no certificate fees to register your stock (just the $10 registration fee which you would also have to pay in addition to the certificate fee if going the A.I. route). I would like to see a cost comparison.

I know with buying a bull per my description, I'll be out ~$500 in purchase price money in 2 years. My cost for wintering a bull for 2 years is around $200. And, shots, worming, etc. will cost another ~$100 for 2 years. So roughly, my breeding costs for 2 calf crops and registration, when I own a bull is around $800. The registration certificates alone, for 24 heifers, would account for $1800 in expense. How can A.I. be an even cost proposition? That's what I want to understand.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

My two cents. Cost isn't expensive. More work, but cost shouldn't be a factor. If you synchronize, shots + CIDR for example, will run about $10/hd. AI tech charges $50 for each trip out + semen + $10/hd. For example, if 10 head come in the same day, your total costs would be $25/hd. + semen. Semen can run from $8 up over $1000. The semen we use runs from $30 to $90 typically. We average 80% on the first try. If you only calve one season, a bull will only service 30 - 50 cows. Then if you buy a new bull every two years, the costs could be cheaper by AI'ing. Theoretically better calves, should return a lot more on your investment.

Since I don't A.I. my cattle, my purpose for this post is to learn something (not be argumentative).

Let's just use an example of a small herd of 25 registered cows for the purpose of responding to my questions. Let's assume that you can get excellent quality registered bulls from a local non-big name breeder for $1200 - $1500. Let's assume 100% annual calving success and that 1/2 of your calf crop are bulls which you make into steers and don't register, but you register the 12 remaining females. Let's also assume you can get semen for $25 a straw and have a $75 certificate fee for registration. Now for the questions:

1) Do you keep a clean-up bull also?

2) How many trips do you have to pay for the A.I. tech to come to the farm to get 100% of your cows bred? (considering an 80% success ratio)

3) In the above scenario, what would your expected cost be to A.I. and register your calf crop for 1 year?

4) What would be the total projected cost be to A.I. and register 2 calf crops per the above description?

When going the route with a bull, you can sell him at around 2000 pounds, and at 50 cents a pound, recover $1000 of your initial bull investment. Second, if you own the registered bull, there are no certificate fees to register your stock (just the $10 registration fee which you would also have to pay in addition to the certificate fee if going the A.I. route). I would like to see a cost comparison.

I know with buying a bull per my description, I'll be out ~$500 in purchase price money in 2 years. My cost for wintering a bull for 2 years is around $200. And, shots, worming, etc. will cost another ~$100 for 2 years. So roughly, my breeding costs for 2 calf crops and registration, when I own a bull is around $800. The registration certificates alone, for 24 heifers, would account for $1800 in expense. How can A.I. be an even cost proposition? That's what I want to understand.

Initial cost of bull on the hoof would be very high if he was the same quality as the bull in the straws.

 

[rwtherefords]

Initial cost of bull on the hoof would be very high if he was the same quality as the bull in the straws.

I disagree! That is the illusion big name breeders thrive on perpetuating. The $75 certificate bulls are from big name breeders. Big names aren't the only sources for good quality bulls. I have the same genetics in my herd as the big name breeders in my area, but I cannot command the same price that they get. In fact, all of my stock have the same genetics found in the bigger name breeders herds that command $75 certificate prices! People pay more for big names because that's what they recognize. Delmonte green beans or Jordache (sp?) jeans aren't necessarily any better quality products than other brands available.

Quality isn't the issue, brand recognition is. Now, if you're your objective is something other than creating top quality cattle (say, developing name recognization in a pedigree), I could understand paying the high dollar for bull semen. There was a whole other thread discussing the huge ranches with large advertising budgets, that "purchase" demand for their stock throught aggressive advertising.

 

[MikeC]

The problem of buying a young bull as opposed to AI'ing is usually the AI bulls are PROVEN. When you buy a young bull it's always a gamble.

There have been some Big prices paid for young bulls with the intent of the owner making money on semen. Only to find out his calves didn't turn out to good.

Using a proven bull with high accuracy EPD's is the safest way to go.

 

[rwtherefords]

The problem of buying a young bull as opposed to AI'ing is usually the AI bulls are PROVEN. When you buy a young bull it's always a gamble.

There have been some Big prices paid for young bulls with the intent of the owner making money on semen. Only to find out his calves didn't turn out to good.

Using a proven bull with high accuracy EPD's is the safest way to go.

Good point MikeC. There definitely are risks using a young bull. I think they can be minimized by careful selection, but definitely not eliminated. I'd still like to see a cost comparison for the scenario posted earlier.

 

[dun]

I'm intrigued by how you can feed a bull for $100 a year. I'm not fortunate enough to have all cows that would work well with one bull. We typically use 3-4 bulls each year on 25 or so cows and heifers.

dun