AHA and CHA

[BIZIN]

Figured out what it would cost to register all our active hereford cows and their dams and sires that havent been registered through the CHA. It would cost half as much to register through the AHA. Has anyone ever heard of the CHA giving someone a deal on that stuff? Or does anyone know if a Canadian can join the AHA?

 

[Aaron]

Reading from your post on EPD's, you quit registering cows in 2001. To register everything after that point, you need hair samples of the sires you kept daughters off of, for DNA testing, which is $40/bull. No hair sample means no registration. If you can do this, and can afford the $100 registration fees per animal, than I would phone the CHA and ask for a discount based on the number of head. They are so short on money nowadays that they will just be happy they roped someone back into the biz. :lol: :cowboy:

I should add, if you ever do get back into registering, don't stop. Seen a few good operations quit registering, only to see the value of their once registered (now grade/commercial) stock, (as deemed by the marketplace), cut in half. People seem to think the purebred paperwork is too much effort. On the flip side, the loss of the green paper associated with that registration paper can be much more difficult to swallow.

 

[Herefords.US]

Reading from your post on EPD's, you quit registering cows in 2001. To register everything after that point, you need hair samples of the sires you kept daughters off of, for DNA testing, which is $40/bull. No hair sample means no registration.

So, Aaron, you're saying that all Hereford bulls used natural service have to hair samples taken and DNA results on file to register their daughters with the CHA? :?:

George

 

[KNERSIE]

Reading from your post on EPD's, you quit registering cows in 2001. To register everything after that point, you need hair samples of the sires you kept daughters off of, for DNA testing, which is $40/bull. No hair sample means no registration.

So, Aaron, you're saying that all Hereford bulls used natural service have to hair samples taken and DNA results on file to register their daughters with the CHA? :?:

George

That's how it is here.

 

[SaskHerf]

i thought you needed full parentage (sire and dam dna/hair samples) testing to register cattle over 30 months.

 

[Herefords.US]

Reading from your post on EPD's, you quit registering cows in 2001. To register everything after that point, you need hair samples of the sires you kept daughters off of, for DNA testing, which is $40/bull. No hair sample means no registration.

So, Aaron, you're saying that all Hereford bulls used natural service have to hair samples taken and DNA results on file to register their daughters with the CHA? :?:

George

That's how it is here.

I don't think that is a bad idea, but it's sure not required in the US. Only bulls used AI and donor cows are required to be DNA tested, and the AHA has some sort of "random check" program in place(something like 1 out of every 500 registrations), if I recall correctly. I'm starting to collect hair samples on all my cattle and keep them on file - in case I need them in the future. I wish I had done that from day one back in the business in 2002.

George

 

[Aaron]

Reading from your post on EPD's, you quit registering cows in 2001. To register everything after that point, you need hair samples of the sires you kept daughters off of, for DNA testing, which is $40/bull. No hair sample means no registration.

So, Aaron, you're saying that all Hereford bulls used natural service have to hair samples taken and DNA results on file to register their daughters with the CHA? :?:

George

Yes. To register either the sons or daughters. :cowboy:

This came into effect in 2006 I think. The association lost many good breeders because of this decision. Their view (and I agree to some point) was that there was no need for full sire testing if the association would do it's job and expel breeders who were caught with 'random' testing.

 

[KNERSIE]

I'm starting to collect hair samples on all my cattle and keep them on file - in case I need them in the future. I wish I had done that from day one back in the business in 2002.

I've also started doing that.

 

[Aaron]

i thought you needed full parentage (sire and dam dna/hair samples) testing to register cattle over 30 months.

Your probably right SH. I've never had to register anything that late, so I'm not 100% on the requirements. :cowboy:

 

[BIZIN]

Ya, we stopped tattooing in 2001 I discovered, havent registered anything since 1995. So there is no way I can get DNA on everything we have used. If the AHA doesnt require it then I would join the AHA. But as I said in my EPD post, we are looking at BIO track in Ontario, they are doing some interesting stuff that we are looking on getting on board with. If DNA testing starts making some strides I think that is the way to go, along with WW, YW, and gain. Commercial cattleman dont give a darn about EPD's, and that is who I am looking to sell to, not try and sell to other breeders.

We quit registering with the CHA cause of all the bullshit and expense involved, I'm glad to see nothing has changed!

 

[Aaron]

Ya, we stopped tattooing in 2001 I discovered, havent registered anything since 1995. So there is no way I can get DNA on everything we have used. If the AHA doesnt require it then I would join the AHA. But as I said in my EPD post, we are looking at BIO track in Ontario, they are doing some interesting stuff that we are looking on getting on board with. If DNA testing starts making some strides I think that is the way to go, along with WW, YW, and gain. Commercial cattleman dont give a darn about EPD's, and that is who I am looking to sell to, not try and sell to other breeders.

We quit registering with the CHA cause of all the be nice and expense involved, I'm glad to see nothing has changed!

Welcome to the club! I made that decision early on in life. You can invest $1000 in a show heifer in feed and trucking alone and have nothing to show for it. Maybe your commercial buyers care about the DNA info. Mine don't care about any of it. Most have done the stint in their time where they invested big money on hard-fed show-type bulls and got burned real bad. Hard numbers and a glance at the dam and sire are all my buyers want. The rest is just hooey...even if I had the extra info on hand, they would tell me to shut up and quit wasting their time blithering on about scientific nonsense. :lol: :cowboy:

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Ya, we stopped tattooing in 2001 I discovered, havent registered anything since 1995. So there is no way I can get DNA on everything we have used. If the AHA doesnt require it then I would join the AHA. But as I said in my EPD post, we are looking at BIO track in Ontario, they are doing some interesting stuff that we are looking on getting on board with. If DNA testing starts making some strides I think that is the way to go, along with WW, YW, and gain. Commercial cattleman dont give a darn about EPD's, and that is who I am looking to sell to, not try and sell to other breeders.

We quit registering with the CHA cause of all the be nice and expense involved, I'm glad to see nothing has changed!

Welcome to the club! I made that decision early on in life. You can invest $1000 in a show heifer in feed and trucking alone and have nothing to show for it. Maybe your commercial buyers care about the DNA info. Mine don't care about any of it. Most have done the stint in their time where they invested big money on hard-fed show-type bulls and got burned real bad. Hard numbers and a glance at the dam and sire are all my buyers want. The rest is just hooey...even if I had the extra info on hand, they would tell me to shut up and quit wasting their time blithering on about scientific nonsense. :lol: :cowboy:

Whether one agrees with the CORRECT management principles of Beef Production - or not - targeting the buyer with his needs is critical. It does NO good to cast pearls before swine! If they refuse to attempt to learn, understand, or accept facts, you are banging your head against a wall to try to explain logic and reality. If they don't want to be "confused by the facts", DON'T CONFUSE THEM!

Adam and Eve didn't listen! Why should you expect anyone else to do differently?

DOC HARRIS

 

[alexfarms]

BIZIN,
I think you'll be better off, in the long run, if you start registering the cattle. Maybe start with the best ones or the one's that can still be registered the cheapest.

 

[Aaron]

Ya, we stopped tattooing in 2001 I discovered, havent registered anything since 1995. So there is no way I can get DNA on everything we have used. If the AHA doesnt require it then I would join the AHA. But as I said in my EPD post, we are looking at BIO track in Ontario, they are doing some interesting stuff that we are looking on getting on board with. If DNA testing starts making some strides I think that is the way to go, along with WW, YW, and gain. Commercial cattleman dont give a darn about EPD's, and that is who I am looking to sell to, not try and sell to other breeders.

We quit registering with the CHA cause of all the be nice and expense involved, I'm glad to see nothing has changed!

Welcome to the club! I made that decision early on in life. You can invest $1000 in a show heifer in feed and trucking alone and have nothing to show for it. Maybe your commercial buyers care about the DNA info. Mine don't care about any of it. Most have done the stint in their time where they invested big money on hard-fed show-type bulls and got burned real bad. Hard numbers and a glance at the dam and sire are all my buyers want. The rest is just hooey...even if I had the extra info on hand, they would tell me to shut up and quit wasting their time blithering on about scientific nonsense. :lol: :cowboy:

Whether one agrees with the CORRECT management principles of Beef Production - or not - targeting the buyer with his needs is critical. It does NO good to cast pearls before swine! If they refuse to attempt to learn, understand, or accept facts, you are banging your head against a wall to try to explain logic and reality. If they don't want to be "confused by the facts", DON'T CONFUSE THEM!

Adam and Eve didn't listen! Why should you expect anyone else to do differently?

DOC HARRIS

Most want the facts (i.e. hard numbers). Most, including me, view EPD's as educated estimates. Not all, but most.

But don't get me wrong Doc. I am not saying that it irritates me. I personally don't pay attention to carcass numbers on cattle because they don't affect the live cattle price that myself or my customers receive.