ag lime or dolomite?

[whalersport]

i'm in sw florida and am grazing beef cattle on bahia pasture, took soil test in two locations, calcium in 1500's and magnesium 65., ph is 4.7, which should i use lime or dolomite? 70 acres . thanks!

 

[Banjo]

You probably should ask your extension agent. Up here the only dolomite lime is in bags and pretty expensive.

 

[Ebenezer]

Either can be used but there is a difference in the % neutralizing effect by source.
Calcium Carbonate 100% CCE
Dolomitic Limestone 95 - 105% CCE

The big deal is to be sure it is certified for agricultural purposes so that it is ground fine enough. The fineness of grind is probably most important.

On sandy soils the lime does not bid and stay in the profile as well so a little along is better than a lot occasionally.

 

[Limepro]

I make both hi-cal and dolomite lime, here's what you should know. Your ratio of calcium to magnesium should be 7 to 1 at a minimum, any good agronomist will tell you this. Your around 24 to 1, At this ratio a lot goes wrong inside a plant. For example chlorophyll production is dependent on magnesium. Next look at where your soil test shows base saturation %, your target is 65% calcium and somewhere around 7 %-12% magnesium for most soils. Finally look at your CEC , the lower the CEC of your soil typically the more benefits you get from dolomite. Low CEC equals sandy soils, dolomite has a tightening effect on soils and in sand this may help you retain some moisture.
Hope this helps you some .

Now excuse my rant on dolomite for just a second. I make both types of lime. I make more dolomite than hi- cal and I make way more money off dolomite. I use dolomite on my own farm because I'm all cattle and hardly any row crops. All that being said dolomite lime is inferior to hi-cal lime at changing soil ph. Every time someone post about dolomite they mention it has a higher CCE ( calcium carbonate equivalent ) than hi-cal and that is true. It's all about molecular weights, magnesium is lighter than calcium and therefore you get more atoms of magnesium in a ton of dolomitic aglime. That's the easy science part that every agronomist and soil scientist will tell you. Now go talk to chemist and they will quickly tell you that dolomite MUST be twice as small as calcium to achieve the same amount of reactivity in an acid solution.So my point is this,dolomite is a great tool that our plants need. But please pay attention to the particle size with dolomite, it's useless and a waste of your money if it's not ground to a fine powder. Thanks!

 

[Deepsouth]

Limepro, thanks for the great information. Your user name is very appropriate. :tiphat:

 

[whalersport]

so with my ratio so far off you are saying put out dolomite that is ground fine? never ordering it before is that the lingo i use? Thanks!!

 

[Limepro]

Good chemistry definitely helps but ask whoever you are buying the lime from for its gradations. Most states look at the percent passing a 60 mesh screen. It's commonly accepted that whatever passes a 60 mesh screen will work in 4 years. Personally I could knock holes in this all day long but it's a good rule of thumb. Next look at the percent passing a 100 mesh screen, that's where lime really gets good. Clemson university has a chart showing anything passing a 100 mesh works in 2 weeks. The higher the percentage passing the 100 mesh the better and the more value the lime would have in my opinion. Finally your ph was in 4.7 range any lime you put out is going to work to some degree, you've got a lot of hydrogen to have a ph that low.
If your in south Florida I would probably try to find some lime made by North Florida Rock in Marianna it's Dolomite, it's descent and will work for what you need it to do. They are a lot closer to you than I am and freight from my place would eat your lunch (and your cows).

 

[whalersport]

Thank You!!

 

[Ebenezer]

Good chemistry definitely helps but ask whoever you are buying the lime from for its gradations. Most states look at the percent passing a 60 mesh screen. It's commonly accepted that whatever passes a 60 mesh screen will work in 4 years. Personally I could knock holes in this all day long but it's a good rule of thumb. Next look at the percent passing a 100 mesh screen, that's where lime really gets good. Clemson university has a chart showing anything passing a 100 mesh works in 2 weeks. The higher the percentage passing the 100 mesh the better and the more value the lime would have in my opinion. Finally your ph was in 4.7 range any lime you put out is going to work to some degree, you've got a lot of hydrogen to have a ph that low.
If your in south Florida I would probably try to find some lime made by North Florida Rock in Marianna it's Dolomite, it's descent and will work for what you need it to do. They are a lot closer to you than I am and freight from my place would eat your lunch (and your cows).

Where are you located?

 

[Rajela]

Good question???? I wish everyone would place there location in their profile. This can be done in the Users Control Panel (located at the top left of the screen) under Profile.

 

[Limepro]

Roll Tide!!!
I'm in 14 quarries in Alabama. Mostly from Birmingham north. I also have Lime in a distribution warehouse in the Mississippi Delta. We ship into 5 states but unfortunately not SW Florida. We also broker Gypsum in Alabama, Mississippi, and the Florida pan handle. Not here to promote my company though, just like answering Lime questions. I get a lot of them, my dealers service over 1.5 million acres of row crop land and a bunch of pasture and hay fields. I run 250 mommas in NW Alabama, and the running joke with all my friends is that I sale lime so I can afford to farm.

 

[Bigfoot]

Are the liquid lime products a waste of money?

 

[Limepro]

Well, I'm not going to say they don't work but I've never really seen anyone that was happy with the performance that liquid products delivered. Personally I can't see paying to haul water around either. Now let's talk about the science about why not to use them. You can't cheat the lime bank that you have in your soils, there is no way around it if your going to survive farming. All of us are guilty of only thinking about aglime when we need to change soil ph. Not many people respect it for its roll in plant health, nutrient uptake, and plant cell wall development . Perfect example is Bermuda grass hay, it removes 280 pounds of calcium from the soil for every 8 tons of yield. You're average 600 pound calf uses 45 pounds of calcium to develope it's bone structure. A ton of finely ground lime only delivers 880 pounds of soluble calcium period. Ever wonder why lime only tends to last three years on your hay fields, there's your Answer. Buy a load of course aglime and your lucky to get 400 pounds of soluble calcium. I can't see how a gallon jug of liquid lime can ever keep up with the calcium demands our grasses have. That plant cell wall contains a lot of calcium so don't just think about ph when talking about Aglime!

 

[Bigfoot]

Well, I'm not going to say they don't work but I've never really seen anyone that was happy with the performance that liquid products delivered. Personally I can't see paying to haul water around either. Now let's talk about the science about why not to use them. You can't cheat the lime bank that you have in your soils, there is no way around it if your going to survive farming. All of us are guilty of only thinking about aglime when we need to change soil ph. Not many people respect it for its roll in plant health, nutrient uptake, and plant cell wall development . Perfect example is Bermuda grass hay, it removes 280 pounds of calcium from the soil for every 8 tons of yield. You're average 600 pound calf uses 45 pounds of calcium to develope it's bone structure. A ton of finely ground lime only delivers 880 pounds of soluble calcium period. Ever wonder why lime only tends to last three years on your hay fields, there's your Answer. Buy a load of course aglime and your lucky to get 400 pounds of soluble calcium. I can't see how a gallon jug of liquid lime can ever keep up with the calcium demands our grasses have. That plant cell wall contains a lot of calcium so don't just think about ph when talking about Aglime!

Thanks for the reply. Everybody but the guy sellin it told me it was no good. That should have told me something.

 

[Limepro]

Don't feel bad. I recently had a retired university of Georgia soils professor tell me that he looked at over 400 different products that where considered snake oils when they were introduced onto the market. And when I say looked at I mean he studied them in the lab and in field trails.ONLY ONE lived up to meet the claims on the label. So buyer beware, if it seems to good to be true it probably is. I ran across an ad once for liquid lime from back in the 80's it's nothing new, if it worked it would have survived. By the way agrotain was the product that met its labels claims.

 

[Bigfoot]

I've got a field, that's just about impossible to get a like truck to. Next time a dozer is here, I'll widen a way in. I thought I could just spray it, and be done with it.

 

[whalersport]

i'm in Desoto county, southwest florida.

 

[littletom]

Don't feel bad. I recently had a retired university of Georgia soils professor tell me that he looked at over 400 different products that where considered snake oils when they were introduced onto the market. And when I say looked at I mean he studied them in the lab and in field trails.ONLY ONE lived up to meet the claims on the label. So buyer beware, if it seems to good to be true it probably is. I ran across an ad once for liquid lime from back in the 80's it's nothing new, if it worked it would have survived. By the way agrotain was the product that met its labels claims.

I am glad to here that is the one that works.