Advice needed on common fence issue...

[DavisBeefmasters]

Okay, need some advice on a common fence and a not so neighborly neighbor...

Background: The property we're on and the neighbors used to be owned by the same people (different parcels) and the fences are extremely old with a combination of t-post, wood posts, barb wire, wire mesh, etc. -- you name it, it's there. We share approx. 3400 lf of common fence with this neighbor. He purchased his property when we purchased ours -- he has thoroughbred horses, we have purebred cattle. When we moved in (same time he did), we put up new fence along about 1500 lf of the common fence line because the wood posts were rotten, barb wire was too brittle to even mess with any more -- he said he would "chip in his part" once he got his feed store up and running in town. That was over 18 months ago.

Current issue:
We would like to turn our cows out to the back 40 acres; however, that fence is in just ridiculously bad shape due to several reasons: 1. His idea of fixing is to ball up a broken section and tie it to a post, 2. He caught his back 40 on fire this summer using a chain saw in our 3rd week of over 100 degree temps which caused a loss of posts, etc.

We noticed horse dung out in our back 40 acres, about 2 weeks ago, and called him out of concern for him missing a horse since there is currently no water back there (until we fill the tanks). He said no but he'd check and mend the fence if they found a way through. He said "you guys have a lot of feed back there" to which we responded that yes, the cows were going back there soon to minimize the hay ($$$$) bill.

Last weekend we saw ALL of his horses (about 20) on our back 40 and went over to ask him about it. He said he would promptly retrieve them and fix the fence, so we said well let's talk about putting up a new fence. He said no way, he'll just fix what's there if we wanted a new fence go ahead but he's not paying a dime... needless to say this led to a tense discussion on not "chipping in" on the first section of fence yet.

Anyway, we broke off a wood stick about 2" long and put 1 piece each in the barb wire gate top wire of each of the gates to his property on the back 40 acres... it's on our side and you wouldn't notice it unless you were on our side... if you open the gate, it will fall out... well guess what? more horse dung is back there and the sticks were gone... and there is no evidence of any new barb wire, new fence clips, any fence mending or any hole big enough for 20 horses to come trapsing through...

I believe we have a lying feed thief for a neighbor.

Any advice for how to keep him from stealing feed and to pay his share of the fencing? Doesn't he have a responsibility as a fellow raiser of livestock to contain his own animals? We called animal control and they said it's a "civil issue" and we're not fond of lawyers and that whole process.

Rights right and wrongs wrong and it just gets me going when people are weasels

Any/all advice welcome. Sorry for the lengthy post (not my usual style).

 

[Green Creek]

Most states have a fence law. Here you have to fence your animals in and if your neighbor does not have animals, he/she does not have to maintain a fence. Since both of you have animals, seems to me like he would have to maintain his section but each state is different. I think it is a matter for the sheriff instead of animal control.

 

[iowahawkeyes]

Just finish your fence. There probably is a fence law in every state but the simple fact is that you need to watch out for your own cattle and at the same time keep his animals off your property. It stinks but that's how it is. :roll:

 

[Susie David]

String your new fence a foot on your side of the property line and leave the old fence in place...a couple of gate posts and a gate with a chain and padlock will give him your message.
DMc

 

[MikeC]

Go ahead and build the fence while keeping up with all complete times/dates plus expenses and labor.

When you get through, send him a bill for half of the job by registered mail and be sure that he knows that he has 10 days to pay or the matter will be turned over to an attorney.

Follow through with it or you will have problems as long as you are neighbors.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

My state is a fence out state, I don't know about CA - but your extension people should know. I feel for you. Looks like you are going to be stuck building new fence and paying the whole cost, unless there is some legal thing I never heard of. If his animals are trespassing and CA is NOT a fence out state you can get him for trespass and I presume confiscate and sell them. Or at least collect a "gathering fee" and the state gets them.

Not the best way to neighbor, but sounds like he already made the determination to be a rotten one.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Not sure if this covers your problem or not, seems to be different rules for counties that declare themselves as grazing areas???

but maybe you can find something useful: http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/fence/ca_fnc.htm

 

[Alice]

String your new fence a foot on your side of the property line and leave the old fence in place...a couple of gate posts and a gate with a chain and padlock will give him your message.
DMc

This seems like it would make the most sense and have the least amount of confrontation. I'm so glad we haven't had to deal with this kind of stuff...

Alice

 

[branDcalf]

I'm in a fence-out state, too. Sorry he's being such a slacker, and so arrogant. I've only had one that wasn't good about doing their share.

This proves the saying I grew up with, "Good fences make good neighbors."

 

[fit2btied]

String your new fence a foot on your side of the property line and leave the old fence in place...a couple of gate posts and a gate with a chain and padlock will give him your message.
DMc

I wouldn't give up that foot, could come back to haunt you later.

 

[Horticattleman]

What exactly does "fence=out state" mean.

I would just build the fence and get it over with. I am a man of principle and no matter how bad I would want to get him to build it or collect his horses and sell em, sometimes its better to just suck it up and finish the fence.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Real good fencer...maybe direct :shock: :lol: , as one guy sad out here about another farmer. Next time he's gonna a bill and a cheque. bill fro freight and a cheque from the stock yards...it that legal....dunno

 

[Hippie Rancher]

What exactly does "fence=out state" mean.

I think it originates from the settling of the west and rangeland issues with homesteaders. Basically it means it is your responsibility to fence ranging animals out of your property if you don't want them there. It has legal ramifications on things like rural roads and railroad right of ways. In a fence-out situation if you hit a cow on a rural road you are liable for damages. Or in the case of the railroad, they have to build and maintain right-of-way fence or pay for dead animals (or both) Or if you have a small acreage in the middle of range country its is your responsibility to fence animals out of your garden, not the rancher's and he can't be held liable for damage or trespass if you don't fence.

I would just build the fence and get it over with. I am a man of principle and no matter how bad I would want to get him to build it or collect his horses and sell em, sometimes its better to just suck it up and finish the fence.

That is probably the sensible thing to do for sure. Of course out west you might be talking about MILES of fence in rough country and that can be some serious coin/labor. I go out of my way to fix fences for the moronic small property neighbors I have, even though it really is their responsibility. I just do it to keep everybody happy (nevermind I do a MUCH better job, because I actually know how). The ranch neighbors are good about sharing the job. Some people work a deal that one pays for materials, the other labor. Or split costs even, or if the ground is pretty similar find the half way point and one neighbor does to the north (or whatever) and the other does the other direction.

 

[Txwalt]

Someone who would graze your land without your permission is probably capable of a lot worse if you decide to turn this into a grudge match. Every time something bad happened to your cattle you would have to wonder if your neighbor did it. It might, emphasis on might, be better just to build the fence and put a smile on whenever you talked to this guy. Good guys don't always win except in movies.

Walt

 

[hillrancher]

Watch your back pasture when you catch his critters in there take them through your place to the roadway or public lands. Be home by sun up doing chores. If he can't find them for a few days when he does they are 20+ mile away he will fix fence or sell.

 

[Alice]

Someone who would graze your land without your permission is probably capable of a lot worse if you decide to turn this into a grudge match. Every time something bad happened to your cattle you would have to wonder if your neighbor did it. It might, emphasis on might, be better just to build the fence and put a smile on whenever you talked to this guy. Good guys don't always win except in movies.

Walt

Yup! Altho, I might have a hard time with the smile on the face part.

Alice

 

[msscamp]

Any advice for how to keep him from stealing feed....?

Yeah - bite the bullet, accept the fact that he does not play well with others, get your fences in shape, and get on with your life. You have a responsibility to your land, livestock, and way of life. Don't expect others to contribute to it, even with shared fences. It might be a shared fence, but by going ahead and fixing it on your own, it is your land, and your livestock that you are protecting.

Doesn't he have a responsibility as a fellow raiser of livestock to contain his own animals? We called animal control and they said it's a "civil issue" and we're not fond of lawyers and that whole process.

Maybe he does, and maybe he doesn't. Either way, so what? Just because he might have a responsibility does not mean that he will live up to it. By you forcing the issue you are making an enemy, and your livestock with likely pay for it. As previously mentioned, accept the responsibility of the life you have chosen. By fixing your common fences you are protecting your land, and your livestock.

Rights right and wrongs wrong and it just gets me going when people are weasels

Get over it. For every responsible person, there are 10(probably more) who won't own up to it. Are you going to let it get in the way of your life? As far as I know, there are no guarantees that the neighbors are always going to live up to their responsibilities when one gets into ranching - suck it up, do what you have to do, and move on.

 

[brownmule]

oh boy am a i a good one to my 2 cents in on crappy neighbors.... atlest the poilce hasnt threaten to put you in jail yet for building fence on your own land here in wv we have "legal fence laws" specs and common fence laws.. notice to build fence etc,, BUT... getting the law to back you up is another thing... whats right doesnt make it legal, and what is in the law codes dont always seem to apply.. in my case any way.. if i could build my fence i would post it and take it from there... what ever you do document document! if you could pic of the horses in the field thats a good start. any fence you build snap a pic keep a log of progress.. this will end up a civil matter... but at least you have the doc to back it all up any conversation you have w him should be in wirting if you want reimbursed for half the fence... good luck on that.... but what ever you do dont not alow him to use your field if it means you eat the cost of the fence or it could end up like me and hes suing you to take it under advress possion.... stop it now the cost of fence is way cheaper than what im going thru now and who know when and i this will ever be settled Good luck
my thoughts are w you.... Rose

 

[backhoeboogie]

Luckily I have some really good neighbors. One recently insisted on buying everything since I was doing all the work to replace fence after the flood. I have one that is not so good. The county finally started confiscating his cattle and he had to pay to get them back. In the heat of things, it got to the point that I thought someone was going to get killed. It actually progressed to that point. Not good. His cattle would tear up brand new fence to get to the pasture. I have video of one cow methodically pushing clips off of T-posts along the fence. First time I had ever seen such a thing. Electric fence will not stop starving animals once they figure out getting through is only a temporary shock.

The best thing you can do is put up the fence. Turn everything else over to the authorities. Otherwise you could wind up spending money for attorneys and bondsmen on criminal offense. Get pics and video on his animals on your property if you can. When you talk to the authorities, don't get emotions involved (i.e. anger). Just show them the pics and video. You pay taxes for them to do the rest.

 

[Avalon]

I live in what they call a "free range" county. A neighbors bull was getting in sometime back. Naturally this heinz 57 was breeding on my registered cows. I would complain, he would come get the Bull over and over. I finally told him that if he didnt KEEP the bull out I'd shoot him. He laughed and told me that "this is a free range county. You must fence every one elses cattle out. If you kill him you buy him". I called the sherrifs department. Upon consulting with them they verified that he was correct. BUT they further told me that HE was responsible for any damage that his bull caused (direct or indirect) when at my place. Next time the bull came over, I penned him. Called the owner and filled him in on the rest of the law. I told him that the bull chased my son and we were afraid he might hurt someone next time we penned him. Further that when my"registered cows" calved to his bulls, he could buy the calves. Not for sale barn prices but reistered prices. Then showed him a check stub for 2 heifers we averaged $2500. ea on. End of the story.... He bought a bull from me and sold his. You got to put the fear into them about a possible law suit from the damage they cause. wether it be a cow with a broken leg from getting chased. Or a family member getting bit or kicked while putting his horses back etcc....
If you need photographic evidence consider getting one of those cameras that hunters use. The ones that are set off by motion. It may help. Good luck