Across Breed EPDs

[El_Putzo]

A while back someone posted a link to a chart to compare the EPDs of various breeds of cattle. It was dated for 2002. I was just curious if there is an updated version as I'm sure those numbers have changed.

TIA

 

[dun]

A while back someone posted a link to a chart to compare the EPDs of various breeds of cattle. It was dated for 2002. I was just curious if there is an updated version as I'm sure those numbers have changed.

TIA

The latest I have is dated 2003

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/livestock/aps-03_08/aps-250.html

dun

 

[jt]

A while back someone posted a link to a chart to compare the EPDs of various breeds of cattle. It was dated for 2002. I was just curious if there is an updated version as I'm sure those numbers have changed.

TIA

The latest I have is dated 2003

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/livestock/aps-03_08/aps-250.html

dun

dun, am i understanding what this chart is saying this correctly... the average charlois yw is 57# heavier than angus??

jt

 

[dun]

Looks that way..

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Thanks, Dun.

Amazing to see the changes in those numbers from '02 to '03. Just goes to show how each of the breeds are evolving. some for the good, some for the bad.

 

[dun]

This came out for 1994 but may be helpfull in trying to figure things out

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/pdfs/bch/01310.pdf#search='across breed epd'


The following is a deal from 2004, but it's in powerpoint. If it's not readable let me know and I'll convert it and post it as a web page or something.

http://www.beefimprovement.org/geneticcommittee/ACROSS04.PPT

dun

 

[Frankie]

A while back someone posted a link to a chart to compare the EPDs of various breeds of cattle. It was dated for 2002. I was just curious if there is an updated version as I'm sure those numbers have changed.

TIA

The latest I have is dated 2003

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/livestock/aps-03_08/aps-250.html

dun

dun, am i understanding what this chart is saying this correctly... the average charlois yw is 57# heavier than angus??

jt

No. You have to read more than the chart. The chart is adjustment factors. The average YW weight EPD on Angus bulls is 67 lbs. The average on Char bulls is 34 pounds (these from the ABS catalog). So you add the adjustment factor of 57 lbs to the Char and get 91 lbs. According to this, the average Char bull would have a YW EPD of 91, 28 more pounds than the average Angus. But let's not single trait select here, when you look at BW EPDs you see that the adjustment factor is 10.5. The average Char EPD for BW is currently 1.4. So you add the adjustment factor of 10.5 to the average BW EPD of 1.4, almost 12 lbs. So for an additional 12 lbs of birthweight, you get 28 more pounds of YW.

Please check my math....

 

[dun]

I'm sure your math is right. I alwasy have to have my wife work out the numbers for me. I'm no idiot (snicker here) but some of these word problems in math just get me twisted around the axle.

dun

 

[dun]

If the powerpoint link doesn't work, try this one.

http://www.leblink.com/~dunmovin/across04.htm

dun

 

[jt]

A while back someone posted a link to a chart to compare the EPDs of various breeds of cattle. It was dated for 2002. I was just curious if there is an updated version as I'm sure those numbers have changed.

TIA

The latest I have is dated 2003

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/livestock/aps-03_08/aps-250.html

dun

dun, am i understanding what this chart is saying this correctly... the average charlois yw is 57# heavier than angus??

jt

No. You have to read more than the chart. The chart is adjustment factors. The average YW weight EPD on Angus bulls is 67 lbs. The average on Char bulls is 34 pounds (these from the ABS catalog). So you add the adjustment factor of 57 lbs to the Char and get 91 lbs. According to this, the average Char bull would have a YW EPD of 91, 28 more pounds than the average Angus. But let's not single trait select here, when you look at BW EPDs you see that the adjustment factor is 10.5. The average Char EPD for BW is currently 1.4. So you add the adjustment factor of 10.5 to the average BW EPD of 1.4, almost 12 lbs. So for an additional 12 lbs of birthweight, you get 28 more pounds of YW.

Please check my math....

then... it seems to me that the chart showing 57# is basically worthless to practically everyone if what you are saying is true frankie.. but, consider this thought... can you really compare the 67 angus yw to the char 34?? i wouldnt think so... different breeds, with different 0 bases... otherwise, why do we need the comparison chart?? without the 57 increase, it would appear that the angus had the heavier calf.. 67 verses 34??? am i totally confused or does this make sense?? it seems to me for that chart to be effective and make sense.. you add whatever number is in the given breed column to that breeds existing number in order to get a true comparison to angus. i think the angus numbers on this chart already considers the average for angus for the year this chart was given, and put that at zero to come with the numbers to add or subtract from the other breeds for comparison.

another question... angus is the base, with all zeros... what weights are associated with those zeros... maybe another way to ask... you say angus has a 67 yw... etc etc.. what would the weight of a calf have to be to get 0 epd's??

thanks

jt

 

[El_Putzo]

I'm with you Jt.

The way I read it (since this is what it says to do at the top of the chart), you have to add the number you are looking at to the Angus number (0 in this case).

Edit: Nevermind, I reread it and it seems as thought Frankie is correct!

 

[Frankie]

I'm sure your math is right. I alwasy have to have my wife work out the numbers for me. I'm no idiot (snicker here) but some of these word problems in math just get me twisted around the axle.

dun

When she gets home, have her check my math!! :lol:

 

[Frankie]

then... it seems to me that the chart showing 57# is basically worthless to practically everyone if what you are saying is true frankie..

Hey, it's your tax dollars at work :lol: I can't endorse these, but the idea is to allow commercial cattlemen to compare bulls across breeds.

but, consider this thought... can you really compare the 67 angus yw to the char 34?? i wouldnt think so... different breeds, with different 0 bases... otherwise, why do we need the comparison chart?? without the 57 increase, it would appear that the angus had the heavier calf.. 67 verses 34???

And that's what this chart is supposed to do, even out the playing field, taking into consideration the different 0 base for each breed. You should use the 57# increase, that's what it's all about.

am i totally confused or does this make sense?? it seems to me for that chart to be effective and make sense.. you add whatever number is in the given breed column to that breeds existing number in order to get a true comparison to angus.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. You do add the number in the given breed column to the individal bull's EPD to compare him to Angus. It that's what you said, yes, you're right. The idea here is to compare bulls of different breeds. Doesn't have to be Angus. I used the breed average EPDs of Angus and Chars, but in a real-world situation, you would use the actual EPDs of the bulls you're considering buying for your program.

i think the angus numbers on this chart already considers the average for angus for the year this chart was given, and put that at zero to come with the numbers to add or subtract from the other breeds for comparison.

I don't think it has anything to do with the year this chart was designed, though they will probably make modifications as they gather more data.

another question... angus is the base, with all zeros... what weights are associated with those zeros... maybe another way to ask... you say angus has a 67 yw... etc etc.. what would the weight of a calf have to be to get 0 epd's??

EPDs never, ever tell you what something will weigh. They only allow you to compare bulls (generally of the same breed). These EPDs were specifically created by MARC to allow you to compare bulls of different breeds. They set Angus as the base for this program; that's why they're 0.

 

[Frankie]

I'm with you Jt.

The way I read it (since this is what it says to do at the top of the chart), you have to add the number you are looking at to the Angus number (0 in this case).

Edit: Nevermind, I reread it and it seems as thought Frankie is correct!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sometimes I get so tangled up, I don't remember what I'm trying to say. But I think I have this one right.

 

[jt]

I'm with you Jt.

The way I read it (since this is what it says to do at the top of the chart), you have to add the number you are looking at to the Angus number (0 in this case).

Edit: Nevermind, I reread it and it seems as thought Frankie is correct!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sometimes I get so tangled up, I don't remember what I'm trying to say. But I think I have this one right.

and i am thoroughly confused.. :roll: :lol: :lol:

 

[Frankie]

I'm with you Jt.

The way I read it (since this is what it says to do at the top of the chart), you have to add the number you are looking at to the Angus number (0 in this case).

Edit: Nevermind, I reread it and it seems as thought Frankie is correct!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sometimes I get so tangled up, I don't remember what I'm trying to say. But I think I have this one right.

and i am thoroughly confused.. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Do you have an ABS or a Genex catalog?

 

[jt]

I'm with you Jt.

The way I read it (since this is what it says to do at the top of the chart), you have to add the number you are looking at to the Angus number (0 in this case).

Edit: Nevermind, I reread it and it seems as thought Frankie is correct!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sometimes I get so tangled up, I don't remember what I'm trying to say. But I think I have this one right.

and i am thoroughly confused.. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Do you have an ABS or a Genex catalog?

no

 

[ga. prime]

There is a 2004 table of adjustment factors for across-breed EPDs on p.22 of the January issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin. There is also an example given for how to use these factors. The '04 chart varies slightly from the '03 chart that dun was refering to, but also lists several more breeds. I don't know how to access this on the internet, maybe someone else can say. If you can read page 22, I think it will clear up some of the confusion.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Frankie, IMO you did an excellent job explaining this subject.
As far as Angus showing all zeros, you're right again. I assume (eeks) that they used Angus as the base because they represent the most cattle around. They could pick any breed and set it as zero, than show an adjustment for Angus. Doesn't matter which breed is set as zero. It is a chart to compare one breed bull to another breed bull. I think it is very helpful to the comercial producer looking for a PB bull.

 

[cleav]

does anyone have a across the bord epd with beefmasters and all of these breeds.