ABS Bull: Proficient

[Baldie Maker]

How has everyone liked this bull? How are his daughters/sons? Pics of reg. calves would be appreciated.
Here is a link..... http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/herefo ... o=29HP0905

 

[alexfarms]

I had never heard of the bull. He certainly has very impressive stats and with a mature height of only 56", that is very impressive.

 

[OLF]

I haven't seen his calves, but I have a maternal brother who is producing great calves for us.
Here is some more info:
Proficient's dam
http://www.rrfarms.info/donors/gerber117fdixie009k.htm

Proficient
http://www.efbeef.com/EF_HerdSires/EFBe ... t_N093.htm

 

[dun]

I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear

 

[ANAZAZI]

I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear

:clap:

 

[HerefordSire]

I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear

dun...this could be runner up to your other comment for the clever comment of the week. Sounds like you are on a roll. Been taking vitamins?

 

[alexfarms]

I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear

IF the data is accurate he ought to look like a boxcar from behind.

 

[KNERSIE]

I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear

IF the data is accurate he ought to look like a boxcar from behind.

If I can trust my eyes at all I bet he don't.

 

[Northern Rancher]

E.P.D's aren't always a good indicator of phenotype.

 

[dun]

Ribeye which there is an EPD for doesn;t always correspond with butt structure

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

I like the pedigree, and side profile. I'd guess based on profile that he's at least average rear width, and certainly not a hatchet. There is enough going for him that he has a place in the industry IMO.

 

[Brandonm22]

Since the loin, rib, and sirloin is worth 3 or 5 times as much as the round (most of which becomes burger meat) do we place waaaaayy too much phenotypic emphasis on the butt? Until ultrasound it was hard to get a good feel for the size of the loin so we looked for expression of muscling where it was easier too see.....the butt and the shoulder. I am not saying I endorse hatchet butts; but a 15" scanned ribeye area and an avg butt MAY be more desirable than a 12" scanned ribeye area and a good butt. This is one of those questions that our Animal Science Universities need to answer for us.

 

[KNERSIE]

Since the loin, rib, and sirloin is worth 3 or 5 times as much as the round (most of which becomes burger meat) do we place waaaaayy too much phenotypic emphasis on the butt? Until ultrasound it was hard to get a good feel for the size of the loin so we looked for expression of muscling where it was easier too see.....the butt and the shoulder. I am not saying I endorse hatchet butts; but a 15" scanned ribeye area and an avg butt MAY be more desirable than a 12" scanned ribeye area and a good butt. This is one of those questions that our Animal Science Universities need to answer for us.

I agree with what you are saying, but you need to look at breeding holistically. Typically muscle and width runs hand in hand and from end to end. All traits also need to be in balance if you want to stay profitable for the long run.

Your eye is as much a tool as is EPDs, use all the tools in the box.

Another consideration, when buyers buy your commercial calves or your customers' commercial calves they don't study the sire's EPDs, they bid on weight and on what they physically can see in the salering. If they see well muscled butts its a pretty safe assumption the rump and loin will also be satisfactory for their needs. I'll dare say well muscled butts will outsell narrow lightmuscled calves with bigger REA EPDs or even better growth numbers anyday at the salebarn.

Us seedstock producers have the bad habit of overcomplicating things...

 

[HerefordSire]

Since the loin, rib, and sirloin is worth 3 or 5 times as much as the round (most of which becomes burger meat) do we place waaaaayy too much phenotypic emphasis on the butt? Until ultrasound it was hard to get a good feel for the size of the loin so we looked for expression of muscling where it was easier too see.....the butt and the shoulder. I am not saying I endorse hatchet butts; but a 15" scanned ribeye area and an avg butt MAY be more desirable than a 12" scanned ribeye area and a good butt. This is one of those questions that our Animal Science Universities need to answer for us.

Good post Brandonm22. Would it be allot easier to sell a big rumped bull to a non-college educated rancher in your howntown? Isn't that why, even though the markets demand one thing, the educators point breeders in another direction..... ?

 

[Brandonm22]

I am not staking out a position here, I am just asking a question. The rib, the loin, and the sirloin is over half of the value of the carcass and just about all the packer's profits. The round ends up in a 5 lb chubs on the shelf at $1.99 a lb or in somebody's frozen burrito. We have a lot of steer shows where trained judges place the class flat out WRONG when we grade the carcasses in the carcass contest after the show. I am not talking about what sells bulls here. Knersie is right. Folks come out look at the bulls from behind and ranks them. Looks at them from a profile and ranks them in his head and picks the bull that he THINKS is the thickest. That does not mean they identified the best bull any more than that highly experienced steer show judge did (who does virtually the same thing). I suspect that the scanned REA (combined with the REA EPD) is probably a better measure of $ value of muscle than me eyeballing his butt. I don't know that. I am not sure how you would prove that; but I am just throwing that out there.

 

[dun]

I am not staking out a position here, I am just asking a question. The rib, the loin, and the sirloin is over half of the value of the carcass and just about all the packer's profits. The round ends up in a 5 lb chubs on the shelf at $1.99 a lb or in somebody's frozen burrito. We have a lot of steer shows where trained judges place the class flat out WRONG when we grade the carcasses in the carcass contest after the show. I am not talking about what sells bulls here. Knersie is right. Folks come out look at the bulls from behind and ranks them. Looks at them from a profile and ranks them in his head and picks the bull that he THINKS is the thickest. That does not mean they identified the best bull any more than that highly experienced steer show judge did (who does virtually the same thing). I suspect that the scanned REA (combined with the REA EPD) is probably a better measure of $ value of muscle than me eyeballing his butt. I don't know that. I am not sure how you would prove that; but I am just throwing that out there.

The problem is that muscle score is pretty much based on the view from the rear. When a bunch of calves goes through the ring and there are 20-30 head in the bunch and they're in the ring for maybe 45 seconds to a minute (I timed them one day) the buyers are going by judgement of that muscle score, not on the acxtual ribeye.

 

[Brandonm22]

Exactly, in feeder calf classes all we really care about is health, the muscle score, and that the calf is not USDA small (Frame 1 and 2). Muscle score is pretty much just looking at butts. When that calf is finished out and sold on the rail nobody really looks at his butt. They pay based on weight, backfat, ribeye area, and marbling. I kind of suspect his sire's uREA and REA EPD is a better indicator of how much REA that calf is going too hang (and the final value of the carcass) than my opinion of his sire's butt.