• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

ABS Bull: Proficient

alexfarms

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
785
Reaction score
0
Location
Gypsum, KS
I had never heard of the bull. He certainly has very impressive stats and with a mature height of only 56", that is very impressive.
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
1
Location
MO Ozarks
I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear
 

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
dun":2h5tf0h8 said:
I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear

dun...this could be runner up to your other comment for the clever comment of the week. Sounds like you are on a roll. Been taking vitamins?
 

KNERSIE

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,058
Reaction score
0
Location
3rd World
alexfarms":1ukk5cob said:
dun":1ukk5cob said:
I may be a prevert but I want to see him from the rear

IF the data is accurate he ought to look like a boxcar from behind.

If I can trust my eyes at all I bet he don't.
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
1
Location
MO Ozarks
Ribeye which there is an EPD for doesn;t always correspond with butt structure
 

greenwillowhereford II

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
885
Reaction score
0
Location
Oklahoma
I like the pedigree, and side profile. I'd guess based on profile that he's at least average rear width, and certainly not a hatchet. There is enough going for him that he has a place in the industry IMO.
 

Brandonm22

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
0
Since the loin, rib, and sirloin is worth 3 or 5 times as much as the round (most of which becomes burger meat) do we place waaaaayy too much phenotypic emphasis on the butt? Until ultrasound it was hard to get a good feel for the size of the loin so we looked for expression of muscling where it was easier too see.....the butt and the shoulder. I am not saying I endorse hatchet butts; but a 15" scanned ribeye area and an avg butt MAY be more desirable than a 12" scanned ribeye area and a good butt. This is one of those questions that our Animal Science Universities need to answer for us.
 

KNERSIE

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,058
Reaction score
0
Location
3rd World
Brandonm22":rngy7fy0 said:
Since the loin, rib, and sirloin is worth 3 or 5 times as much as the round (most of which becomes burger meat) do we place waaaaayy too much phenotypic emphasis on the butt? Until ultrasound it was hard to get a good feel for the size of the loin so we looked for expression of muscling where it was easier too see.....the butt and the shoulder. I am not saying I endorse hatchet butts; but a 15" scanned ribeye area and an avg butt MAY be more desirable than a 12" scanned ribeye area and a good butt. This is one of those questions that our Animal Science Universities need to answer for us.

I agree with what you are saying, but you need to look at breeding holistically. Typically muscle and width runs hand in hand and from end to end. All traits also need to be in balance if you want to stay profitable for the long run.

Your eye is as much a tool as is EPDs, use all the tools in the box.

Another consideration, when buyers buy your commercial calves or your customers' commercial calves they don't study the sire's EPDs, they bid on weight and on what they physically can see in the salering. If they see well muscled butts its a pretty safe assumption the rump and loin will also be satisfactory for their needs. I'll dare say well muscled butts will outsell narrow lightmuscled calves with bigger REA EPDs or even better growth numbers anyday at the salebarn.

Us seedstock producers have the bad habit of overcomplicating things...
 

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
Brandonm22":25ndzugk said:
Since the loin, rib, and sirloin is worth 3 or 5 times as much as the round (most of which becomes burger meat) do we place waaaaayy too much phenotypic emphasis on the butt? Until ultrasound it was hard to get a good feel for the size of the loin so we looked for expression of muscling where it was easier too see.....the butt and the shoulder. I am not saying I endorse hatchet butts; but a 15" scanned ribeye area and an avg butt MAY be more desirable than a 12" scanned ribeye area and a good butt. This is one of those questions that our Animal Science Universities need to answer for us.

Good post Brandonm22. Would it be allot easier to sell a big rumped bull to a non-college educated rancher in your howntown? Isn't that why, even though the markets demand one thing, the educators point breeders in another direction..... ?
 

Brandonm22

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
0
I am not staking out a position here, I am just asking a question. The rib, the loin, and the sirloin is over half of the value of the carcass and just about all the packer's profits. The round ends up in a 5 lb chubs on the shelf at $1.99 a lb or in somebody's frozen burrito. We have a lot of steer shows where trained judges place the class flat out WRONG when we grade the carcasses in the carcass contest after the show. I am not talking about what sells bulls here. Knersie is right. Folks come out look at the bulls from behind and ranks them. Looks at them from a profile and ranks them in his head and picks the bull that he THINKS is the thickest. That does not mean they identified the best bull any more than that highly experienced steer show judge did (who does virtually the same thing). I suspect that the scanned REA (combined with the REA EPD) is probably a better measure of $ value of muscle than me eyeballing his butt. I don't know that. I am not sure how you would prove that; but I am just throwing that out there.
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
1
Location
MO Ozarks
Brandonm22":3r9bt2x2 said:
I am not staking out a position here, I am just asking a question. The rib, the loin, and the sirloin is over half of the value of the carcass and just about all the packer's profits. The round ends up in a 5 lb chubs on the shelf at $1.99 a lb or in somebody's frozen burrito. We have a lot of steer shows where trained judges place the class flat out WRONG when we grade the carcasses in the carcass contest after the show. I am not talking about what sells bulls here. Knersie is right. Folks come out look at the bulls from behind and ranks them. Looks at them from a profile and ranks them in his head and picks the bull that he THINKS is the thickest. That does not mean they identified the best bull any more than that highly experienced steer show judge did (who does virtually the same thing). I suspect that the scanned REA (combined with the REA EPD) is probably a better measure of $ value of muscle than me eyeballing his butt. I don't know that. I am not sure how you would prove that; but I am just throwing that out there.

The problem is that muscle score is pretty much based on the view from the rear. When a bunch of calves goes through the ring and there are 20-30 head in the bunch and they're in the ring for maybe 45 seconds to a minute (I timed them one day) the buyers are going by judgement of that muscle score, not on the acxtual ribeye.
 

Brandonm22

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
0
Exactly, in feeder calf classes all we really care about is health, the muscle score, and that the calf is not USDA small (Frame 1 and 2). Muscle score is pretty much just looking at butts. When that calf is finished out and sold on the rail nobody really looks at his butt. They pay based on weight, backfat, ribeye area, and marbling. I kind of suspect his sire's uREA and REA EPD is a better indicator of how much REA that calf is going too hang (and the final value of the carcass) than my opinion of his sire's butt.
 

Latest posts

Top