ABS Angus Bulls

[Air gator]

Of the ABS Angus bulls that they have, which would you choose?
In particular, what do you think of Absolute, Broken Bow, Var Reserve and Southside?
Thanks in advance. Some of the SEN numbers look bad.

 

[torogmc81]

We used Hoover Dam and Reserve this past year, have a sexed Reserve heifer due on our best cow and a Hoover Dam calf due Sept 21. The rest are early spring calving.

Our ABS list:
Hoover Dam - his $EN has come down as Acc. has increased
Reserve
Tour of Duty
Power Tool
Haynes Outright - a Jan. '14 bull out of Absolute (over a 454 cow) that I'm keeping an anxious eye on

What else are you looking at besides $EN?

 

[Air gator]

I probably only noticed the SEN after I saw Southside how high his milk EPD is...I think his milk EPD is 41 now.
I know he has the strong maternal with a lot of Pathfinders in his pedigree.
SEN is not the first thing I look at.
To be honest, just wondering which bull is going to be the next great bull.
ABS has had EXT and In Focus. At this point CED is important,but I also look at CEM.
I don't want massive cows....I also look at SC and HP.

 

[Warrior2154]

The daughters out of Reserve and Hoover Dam I have liked, the HD have had good udders and broody look. Reserve have only seen bred heifers. I agree about keeping an eye on Outright ;-) . I am anxious to see how he does as well.

 

[torogmc81]

I probably only noticed the SEN after I saw Southside how high his milk EPD is...I think his milk EPD is 41 now.
I know he has the strong maternal with a lot of Pathfinders in his pedigree.
SEN is not the first thing I look at.
To be honest, just wondering which bull is going to be the next great bull.
ABS has had EXT and In Focus. At this point CED is important,but I also look at CEM.
I don't want massive cows....I also look at SC and HP.

appreciate the honesty, but why so much concern on the "next great bull"? I think there's too many choices, too much marketing, for there to be just one or two obvious leaders for a substantial amount of time. And by the time the numbers, accuracies, and reputations are realized, the next bulls are being tried and tested in hopes that they are on to something just like everyone else, the "next best thing". Just my honest opinion.

 

[Warrior2154]

I agree with previous post, why worried about next great bull? I prefer to mainly use proven bulls and sprinkle in a few non-proven bulls. Just like to know what a bull is going to do. Just my opinion.

 

[Air gator]

torogmc81,
You are absolutely right, as are you Warrior.

I simply enjoy researching young bulls. I like to see a bull with eye appeal.
Then I look at the pedigree and EPD's.
I have embryo calves by DHD Traveler 6807, TC Freedom, BCC Bushwacker and Sav Mustang.
So, I didn't go out on a limb with young unproven bulls unless you hold Mustang against me.
Anyway, I asked about the ABS bulls because I don't get to see calves out of A.I. bulls like breeders do in other places.
I live in a quality cattle-deprived area....in North Florida.
I don't live anywhere near Gizmom, for the record. Their operation is impressive.
Southside and Absolute appeal to me because they have Pathfinders in their pedigrees...in an impressive herd.
I like Reserve because I really like his mother and I have seen a lot of positives about his father's daughters.
If I were to use proven bulls depending on the cow I would like Connealy Thunder and Final Answer....probably forgetting others right now.
I know Baldridge Waylon is very popular but I don't think I like Protege a lot. (I never saw him in person or any calves out of him).
I like some other bulls but I don't think I want to use bulls way below breed average CEM.

 

[torogmc81]

I won't hold Mustang against you, he's making a lot of people happy out there, I've seen some real nice calves out of him.

I'm the same way about the researching. I make lists and notes, and look at the EPDs last after eye appeal, feedback and observation of sire's calves, and over all pedigree.

Again, I'm anxious to see our Reserve calves. His dam is also slick haired, something to keep in mind being in FL.

 

[Warrior2154]

I am with you on protege, not much of a fan and same about waylon. Don't like 1I2 at all who is protege sire. I do like Thunder, good daughters. As far as young bulls that I am watching there a few. Haynes outright at abs. MAR Innovation at GeneX. Connealy Commrade and Courage at Select sires. I know you said abs bulls but thought I'd share a few other young bulls. As far as bulls for your climate I am not any help there. Maybe Gizmon can give some advice on that.

 

[Lucky_P]

He ain't pretty, but B/R Destination 727-928 has left some very nice daughters here. Nothing that makes them stick out so that you'd notice them - nice cows(smaller frame than I'd expected) with great disposition and good udders, but they get the job done, and well. Has a positive $EN - and has all 6 of the GeneStar tenderness markers (I've not looked at the Zoetis or Igenity data)

Best AI Angus sire I've ever used, hands-down, was Gardens Wave(High marbling/REA, high $EN, all 6 Genestar tenderness markers)... no longer available from ABS... wish I'd used him more, 'cause the daughters here are great little cows that raise really good calves. Now looking for a good Wave son... to try to recreate that deal... ABS has a grandson, Pioneer Wave, that I'm considering.

Recently departed friend, who was a long-time Angus breeder (and had bred some that folks here would recognize the names of) highly recommended Connealy Counselor to me shortly before he passed, as a good Angus sire with balanced traits who'd leave behind good females with good feet and legs...still thinking about buying a cane of Counselor to use at some point, just based on his recommendation.

 

[torogmc81]

He ain't pretty, but B/R Destination 727-928 has left some very nice daughters here. Nothing that makes them stick out so that you'd notice them - nice cows(smaller frame than I'd expected) with great disposition and good udders, but they get the job done, and well. Has a positive $EN - and has all 6 of the GeneStar tenderness markers (I've not looked at the Zoetis or Igenity data)

Best AI Angus sire I've ever used, hands-down, was Gardens Wave(High marbling/REA, high $EN, all 6 Genestar tenderness markers)... no longer available from ABS... wish I'd used him more, 'cause the daughters here are great little cows that raise really good calves. Now looking for a good Wave son... to try to recreate that deal... ABS has a grandson, Pioneer Wave, that I'm considering.

Recently departed friend, who was a long-time Angus breeder (and had bred some that folks here would recognize the names of) highly recommended Connealy Counselor to me shortly before he passed, as a good Angus sire with balanced traits who'd leave behind good females with good feet and legs...still thinking about buying a cane of Counselor to use at some point, just based on his recommendation.

Just FYI I was just on the ABS Store and Counselor is on back order, for what it's worth ...

 

[etmountianman71]

What are the thoughts of the masterminds on this ABS Angus Bull?
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1891


CED BW WW YW RADG YH SC
EPD +15 -0.7 +103 +178 +.36 +1.3 +1.84

CEM MILK H/Dt MW MH HP DOC
EPD +16 +30 1 +139 +1.5 +20.6 6

Pretty decent.

 

[rollinhills]

What are the thoughts of the masterminds on this ABS Angus Bull?
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1891


CED BW WW YW RADG YH SC
EPD +15 -0.7 +103 +178 +.36 +1.3 +1.84

CEM MILK H/Dt MW MH HP DOC
EPD +16 +30 1 +139 +1.5 +20.6 6

Pretty decent.

I will let you know I have second calf registered angus cows that will calf to him in the next couple weeks. we will see how this turns out.

 

[cow pollinater]

I wouldn't use or sell Rampage except as strictly terminal. Very few herds can handle that kind of growth without a trainwreck.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I wouldn't use or sell Rampage except as strictly terminal. Very few herds can handle that kind of growth without a trainwreck.

Please expand on that thought CP.

 

[cow pollinater]

Growth always comes at a cost. If all you do is chase pounds you wind up with big cows that can raise a whale of a calf... Which is fine IF you want to make sure they get enough feed in front of them to do it but a negative $60 whatever he is now is not going to make a cow that can raise a calf year after year in most peoples's pastures without some help. You can raise more pounds more economiclly by making a cow that can live on your grass and running more of them.
Another area where I see cattlemen get in trouble even if they really understand what I was getting at in the statement above is when they AI their heifers. They all want top notch calving ease and the next thing they look at is WW. Growth always comes at a cost. If you give a first calf heifer this lunker calf that is born nice and small but grows like a weed the end result is likely to be an open heifer. Your milkiest cows will get culled early because they did a great job raising a home run calf and forgot to breed back up. You're better off to give her a moderate growth calf and let her put some weight on herself and breed back. Two decent calves is better than one awesome one.

 

[cow pollinater]

I'll add that EPD averages are averages across all herds. Everyone expects to see that hundred plus extra pounds when they wean but the reality is that people that really push their calves will beat that hundred pounds and people that are relient on genetics alone and don't push them won't get much more than slightly above average WW. Those producers would be better served to use genetics that fit their management.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Thank you for adding to your original post. This has been educational.

 

[Lazy M]

Really good post CP. I had decided to stay away from low en and high milk sires because I'll always keep replacements, but I had never considered the high ww as possibly being a negative for getting the cow bred back.. This is all too much to consider..

 

[Son of Butch]

I'll add that EPD averages are averages across all herds. Everyone expects to see that hundred plus extra pounds when they wean but the reality is that people that really push their calves will beat that hundred pounds and people that are relient on genetics alone and don't push them won't get much more than slightly above average WW.
Those producers would be better served to use genetics that fit their management.

An insightful observation.