ABS Angus Bulls

[Stocker Steve]

Growth always comes at a cost. If all you do is chase pounds you wind up with big cows that can raise a whale of a calf... Which is fine IF you want to make sure they get enough feed in front of them to do it but a negative $60 whatever he is now is not going to make a cow that can raise a calf year after year in most peoples's pastures without some help. You can raise more pounds more economically by making a cow that can live on your grass and running more of them./quote]

Neighbor is AIing Simi with bulls like In Dew Time. SimixAngus cows are pretty moderate (smaller than mine) and weaning wts w/o creep run about 600# (more than mine). So he seems to be able to balance traits. He loves high EPDs but does not retain heifers if the are "framy".

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'll add that EPD averages are averages across all herds. Everyone expects to see that hundred plus extra pounds when they wean but the reality is that people that really push their calves will beat that hundred pounds and people that are relient on genetics alone and don't push them won't get much more than slightly above average WW. Those producers would be better served to use genetics that fit their management.

What do you mean by "really push" ?

 

[wbvs58]

Do you think a big calf will really make a cow produce more milk than she is genetically capable of that a smaller calf won't consume the same amount of milk. I think the calf size is a combination of milk consumed and how well they utilise the grazing and their rumen develops.
Yet the milk EPD for a bull is calculated from the WW of his daughters calves. I have seen cows with low milk EPD by a bull with low EPD for milk that are good doers but their calves do not have great weaning rates but grow well after weaning. Also the same bull joined to cows that have high milk EPD have calves that have high WW and are good doers.
Ken

 

[cow pollinater]

I'll add that EPD averages are averages across all herds. Everyone expects to see that hundred plus extra pounds when they wean but the reality is that people that really push their calves will beat that hundred pounds and people that are relient on genetics alone and don't push them won't get much more than slightly above average WW. Those producers would be better served to use genetics that fit their management.

What do you mean by "really push" ?

Creep feed, implants, supplementing grazing cows, anything above and beyond letting the cattle do it for themselves.

 

[cow pollinater]

Do you think a big calf will really make a cow produce more milk than she is genetically capable of that a smaller calf won't consume the same amount of milk.

No, her genetics and the feed will be the limiting factor in that scenario but I do know that a little slow calf that doesn't use everything she has to offer won't pull her down as much. I've seen it first hand in one of my customer's herds. He breeds for smaller high $EN when he wants heifers to keep as replacements and growth when he wants calves to sell and splits who gets bred to what depending on how many heifers he wants to retain. We've seen a difference in that the heifers that raise the big growthy calves don't breed up as well with #2. In the first year of our drought he figures he produced more pounds of calf by breeding maternal and having a better breedup on his three year olds.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Do you think a big calf will really make a cow produce more milk than she is genetically capable of that a smaller calf won't consume the same amount of milk.

No, her genetics and the feed will be the limiting factor in that scenario but I do know that a little slow calf that doesn't use everything she has to offer won't pull her down as much. I've seen it first hand in one of my customer's herds. He breeds for smaller high $EN when he wants heifers to keep as replacements and growth when he wants calves to sell and splits who gets bred to what depending on how many heifers he wants to retain. We've seen a difference in that the heifers that raise the big growthy calves don't breed up as well with #2.

2X
A cow nursing twins would be an extreme case.

 

[gizmom]

We haven't used much from ABS for several years, one reason they don't have a rep in our area the other they just don't have the genetics we are using. That being said we have used some of the ABS line up in the past most recently H A Image Maker we still have some of his genetics in the herd and they worked pretty good for us. Back years ago we used a lot of ABS Traveler 71 comes to mind as well as Morgan's Direction. They have one bull in their line up right now that I keep looking at and that is Absolute [urlhttp://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1783][/url] I haven't pulled the trigger on him because I just haven't found anyone with calves on the ground on him. CP could probably tell you more about him than I can, but of their line up that would be one I would be looking at for sure, I just have a gut feeling that he would work in our herd. CP made a very good point on how to select sires for heifers I use a lot of OCC genetics on my heifers they are not going to give you big growth numbers but they will leave you with heifers that you want to retain in your herd, to be honest most of our bull calves out of heifers we steer out but I keep the heifers, the ones that keep their credentials are standouts. I can then breed them to bulls with more power as mature cows. We have been using quite a few bulls out of Genex so far we haven't had a miss out of Resource he seems to be the real deal at least from birth to yearling, we will be breeding the first daughters out of him in December so I will let you know next year if I still feel the same about him. Until you get daughters in production out of a bull you really don't know if he really works well or not. I really like the Pioneers we have daughters in production they look really good nice udders big broody kind of cows. My favorite calves this year are out of our old herd bull that died but we have semen in the tank on. They are as good a group of calves as you would find from any AI sire in any AI stud (and yes I am biased). The four ET calves out of 6149 and the SAV cow we purchased for the donor pen are as good as we have ever made here on the farm. I plan to flush the cow back to him this year and try to double up on these genetics. I have 18 eggs in the tank out of the SAV cow and Resource so I will be using them this year as well.

Thanks for the kind words about our program we do try, but like everyone else we have misses as well. Gator If you ever get the time we would love for you to visit our operation. Nothing we love more than talking about cattle.

gizmom

 

[Air gator]

Thanks for the invite, Gizmom.
I like Resource...the only thing that makes me pause is the CEM.
He and Connealy Consensus 7229 both seem to have low CEM.
That's seems to an issue with OCC bulls (and Duff cattle) as well on paper, but not sure how these bulls can
do so well for so many people if it's a real issue?? I really like the looks of the Duff bulls as well.
I have some OCC Juneau embryos in the tank that I need to implant.
What is anyone hearing about Connealy Black Granite? He should have a lot of daughters calving soon.
There seems to be a lot of positive feedback on Absolute but he looks a little different than other Final Answer sons.

 

[Daniel Lee]

Anyone used WR Journey 1x74? He has high EPD's, but I have not seen much about results.

 

[Phil A.]

This year I am looking at the following
There is a Rito bull with decent EN number
I am going to try PinPoint
I am going to use PowerTool (I like him)
I am very fond of Hoover Dam his calves come small grow well and look great. I am using a Hoover Dam Son as a clean up bull right now he is a darned good bull. I really think Hoover Dam's legacy for me could well end up being his daughters I have been using him allot so we are going to back off for a year.

I have some Rampages on the Ground. I am not pleased at all. I looked at quite a few of them tonight and there is not one I like. We will not be using him going forward. Best Calves right now look like PowerTool's and Hoover Dam's.

Phil A.

 

[Ky hills]

This year I am looking at the following
There is a Rito bull with decent EN number
I am going to try PinPoint
I am going to use PowerTool (I like him)
I am very fond of Hoover Dam his calves come small grow well and look great. I am using a Hoover Dam Son as a clean up bull right now he is a darned good bull. I really think Hoover Dam's legacy for me could well end up being his daughters I have been using him allot so we are going to back off for a year.

I have some Rampages on the Ground. I am not pleased at all. I looked at quite a few of them tonight and there is not one I like. We will not be using him going forward. Best Calves right now look like PowerTool's and Hoover Dam's.

Phil A.

I am appreciative to hear the report of the Rampage calves, I have heard that from someone else as well, but have been wondering about what kind of calves he would sire. This year, I have had heifers to calve by Rockmount, a paternal brother to Rampage. It's still early to judge them but so far they look ok. Cows had AI calves by Power Tool, I like them so far too.
I like Hoover Dam too, have used him for 3 years prior to last year. Have heard that he could have feet issues. I have only had issues with one of his calves feet, and the particular cow, that he was out of has bad leg/feet structure. I attributed it to the cow, but after that, I didn't use Hoover Dam anymore, as the calf was much worse than the cow. That cow has since been considered a commercial cow, and had a Hereford sired calf this year. I do really like the Hoover Dam females that I have, they are quiet, and dependable. Aside from the one bull calf's legs, the Hoover Dam calves that I have had have been my best Angus calves. Power Tool's calves here at this point are seem very promising too.

 

[Son of Butch]

This year......I am going to try PinPoint
I have some Rampages on the Ground. I am not pleased at all. I looked at quite a few of them tonight and there is not one I like. We will not be using him going forward. Best Calves right now look like PowerTool's and Hoover Dam's.

The more I look at ww to $W ratio the more I'm convinced it should be strongly considered when selecting sires.

Rampage is the #2 bull of the breed for ww but his ratio to $W is below 1-1 at only .97
Resolute 1.06
Rito 6EM3 1.16
Tour of Duty 1.23
Hoover Dam 1.33
Power Tool 1.34
Absolute 1.38
Pinpoint 1.41
Consensus 7229 1.66
Rito Revenue 2.0
I've never seen any Pinpoint calves......but I'm betting you're going to like them.

 

[Ky hills]

This year......I am going to try PinPoint
I have some Rampages on the Ground. I am not pleased at all. I looked at quite a few of them tonight and there is not one I like. We will not be using him going forward. Best Calves right now look like PowerTool's and Hoover Dam's.

The more I look at ww to $W ratio the more I'm convinced it should be strongly considered when selecting sires.

Rampage is the #2 bull of the breed for ww but his ratio to $W is below 1-1 at only .97
Resolute 1.06
Rito 6EM3 1.16
Tour of Duty 1.23
Hoover Dam 1.33
Power Tool 1.34
Absolute 1.38
Pinpoint 1.41
Consensus 7229 1.66
Rito Revenue 2.0
I've never seen any Pinpoint calves......but I'm betting you're going to like them.

I haven't seen any Pinpoint calves either, but have used his sire Special Focus. The dam of Pinpoint could very well add to him. My experience with Special Focus was that he was a true calving ease bull, very reliable in that respect, as the calves grew they weren't real consistent, but did look nice individually. I kept two heifers from him, one bred late and one didn't at all.

 

[Phil A.]

I will try and round up some pictures of my 2012, 13, 14 model Hoover Dam cows. The look really good right now. Another Sire that is really standing out to me right now is Objective. I have a group of out of him that were born in 2012. Those girls are looking really productive right now as well. Going to have to get my phone out and bring some pics back to share.

2016 is going to go down as a real void in females for us. I am going to guess we ended up right at 80% bull calves. Went heavy Maternal in the old cows with bulls like N.D. 878, and Leadon and ended up with basically no keeper heifers out of whole deal. Have a unique deal a 16 year old cow with an 878 bull calf at her side. Wonder what he could do for longevity in my herd.

 

[Runaway Deere]

So just chasing genetics here. What is the hottest out cross for animals that are 10x, consensus, and onward.... Just wonderIng. I'm looking at conversion and acclaim.

 

[Air gator]

I think the main one would be SAV Final Answer sons and grandsons. Connealy Capitalist would be one.
A lot of people like Gar Prophet. I think there are a ton of people using Sav Resource...or other Rito 707 sons from SAV.
I guess if you have SAV bloodlines you may look at Connealy...If you have Connealy bloodlines you look at SAV bulls. I guess it depends on what Epds are important to you.

 

[Son of Butch]

Have a unique deal a 16 year old cow with an 878 bull calf at her side. Wonder what he could do for longevity in my herd.

Unfortunately probably not as much as you would expect. So many environmental conditions affect longevity it's hard to measure the genetic contribution. But I read somewhere once that it was estimated about 6 months would be the maximum one could ever expect in one generation increased longevity over breed average longevity coming from genetics and even at that it would be an extremely rare sire to be able to achieve it.