a very serious question johnes need serious answers

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Anonymous

i would like some answers to the following 3 questons

first a little about the topic some 8 months ago my wife and i bought 25 animals from a registered breeder. this was his whole herd for over three months i have had a 4 year old female that was withering away. i took her to two large animal vets and neither one of them suggested johnes. i spoke to the former owner numerous times about this animal and what to do. at no time did he suggest johnes well we spoke to a thrid vet he immediatley suggested johnes. :( due to our ignorane we knew nothing about johnes.

two things ironic the vet that suggested johnes was a partner to one of the two that did nothing nor suggested anything. the former owner of the herd after finding out what the third vet said immediatley advised us that he had bought a cow from an individual back in 2001 2002 that came down with johnes only after the third vet advised us as to what to do did the former owner inform us of his prior problems.

the cow and her 8 month old calf are both positive for johnes this individual raised this animal from birth in 2000

? 1. what should we expect or ask of the former owner as the whole herd is questionable now

? 2. what should be said to the two vets that saw that this animal was seriously waisting away. and did nothing nor gave a diagnosis.

? 3. what should we do as individuals to control this problem we have major dollars invested here and by no means will we nor do we wish to pass this disease on to anyone else!

any seious answers are greatly appreciated
 

Frankie

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". what should we expect or ask of the former owner as the whole herd is questionable now

Decide what you want him to do, give you back your money, some of your money? Then, if you can prove he knowingly sold you diseased cattle, mail him a certified letter outlining what you want him to do to make this right. If you can't prove it, be careful of what you say or you could be defending yourself in a liable lawsuit.

" 2. what should be said to the two vets that saw that this animal was seriously waisting away. and did nothing nor gave a diagnosis."

Don't use those vets again. Vets aren't perfect. Several years ago Johnes was a hot topic in the cattle industry and I asked our vet about it. She said she'd never seen a case. Some vets are more familiar with it than others.

" 3. what should we do as individuals to control this problem we have major dollars invested here and by no means will we nor do we wish to pass this disease on to anyone else! "

Contact your state vet and ask if there are guidelines in place for handling an outbreak of Johnes. Some states have set up a testing procedure that allows you to reach a certified Johnes free status. The last dairy in my county closed years ago and, as far as I know, my state doesn't have any Johnes-specific program in place. While there are possibly some cases of the disease around, it's apparently not the problem here that it is in other states.
 

Frankie

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WORANCH":1exv1nhm said:
http://www.angusjournal.com/ArticlePDF/0801aj_Johnes.pdf


here is a little more info. on johnes .

There's a Johne's site: http://www.johnes.org. It has the three article report that appeard in the Angus Journal in 2001, plus lots of articles in dairy publications.
 
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Anonymous

Frankie":xwy0iyt7 said:
". what should we expect or ask of the former owner as the whole herd is questionable now

Decide what you want him to do, give you back your money, some of your money? Then, if you can prove he knowingly sold you diseased cattle, mail him a certified letter outlining what you want him to do to make this right. If you can't prove it, be careful of what you say or you could be defending yourself in a liable lawsuit.

" 2. what should be said to the two vets that saw that this animal was seriously waisting away. and did nothing nor gave a diagnosis."

Don't use those vets again. Vets aren't perfect. Several years ago Johnes was a hot topic in the cattle industry and I asked our vet about it. She said she'd never seen a case. Some vets are more familiar with it than others.

" 3. what should we do as individuals to control this problem we have major dollars invested here and by no means will we nor do we wish to pass this disease on to anyone else! "

Contact your state vet and ask if there are guidelines in place for handling an outbreak of Johnes. Some states have set up a testing procedure that allows you to reach a certified Johnes free status. The last dairy in my county closed years ago and, as far as I know, my state doesn't have any Johnes-specific program in place. While there are possibly some cases of the disease around, it's apparently not the problem here that it is in other states.

i sincerly say thanks for the info and input.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Frankie":2eswsntp said:
". what should we expect or ask of the former owner as the whole herd is questionable now

Decide what you want him to do, give you back your money, some of your money? Then, if you can prove he knowingly sold you diseased cattle, mail him a certified letter outlining what you want him to do to make this right. If you can't prove it, be careful of what you say or you could be defending yourself in a liable lawsuit.

" 2. what should be said to the two vets that saw that this animal was seriously waisting away. and did nothing nor gave a diagnosis."

Don't use those vets again. Vets aren't perfect. Several years ago Johnes was a hot topic in the cattle industry and I asked our vet about it. She said she'd never seen a case. Some vets are more familiar with it than others.

" 3. what should we do as individuals to control this problem we have major dollars invested here and by no means will we nor do we wish to pass this disease on to anyone else! "

Contact your state vet and ask if there are guidelines in place for handling an outbreak of Johnes. Some states have set up a testing procedure that allows you to reach a certified Johnes free status. The last dairy in my county closed years ago and, as far as I know, my state doesn't have any Johnes-specific program in place. While there are possibly some cases of the disease around, it's apparently not the problem here that it is in other states.

i sincerly say thanks for the info and input.
 

TheBullLady

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Johnes is a hot topic in Texas.. and fixin' to get hotter I believe. Especially if a "link" between Johnes and the human equivilent is ever found, or even suggested.

In Illinois it was very prevelent, primarily because it's generally thought to be a "dairy disease". This because most dairy cattle are kept more confined than beef cattle, and it's much easier to pass when the cattle are in a lot or barn.

You can test your herd for Johnes, but it's not a fool proof test. There are a couple of universities that are trying to develop a better test for it, but the last I heard, they haven't made it there yet. If I remember correctly, you have to do a fecal culture to be certain.. and then only if the cow is showing symptoms.

I would contact the former owner, and ask if he had problems like the one you had with the cow you bought from him. If he says no, or you can't prove that he did, I don't think you can force him to do anything with the cows you purchased from him. Did you have any kind of warranty or guarantee on the health of the cows you bought? I would think as a breeder he would want to do whatever he could to make it right, but then, I can't speak for him. It's worth a call!

There is a possibility more of your cows are infected. I would definitely ship any of the direct decendents of the cow that has the symptoms.. chances are very good that her calves will also have it, since it gets passed through manure. (ie: dirty teats) But there's no way to know about the others unless they start showing signs.

Most Johnes cows show symptoms between 2-5 years.. and almost always after stress.. like calving, or weaning a calf.

Good luck. Let us know what happens with the breeder.. it will be interesting to see what he does.
 

SimmAngus

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I have to agree with the BULL LADY! Johnes is and will be a very hot topic in the coming time. I am not a Vet but my understanding is that it is transfered via fecal matter. So if one cow has it, her calf and other cows who are exposed and can become Johnes positive.

The USDA has a Johnes program where you can have your herd tested over the course of several years and develope a Johnes free status. I beleive it runs from level 1 to level 4. Further I understand that a cow can be Johnes positive and never show any symptoms unless stressed or if it becomes infected with another illness.

I also agree with the other posts which suggest dumping the first two Vets! Crones (sp) which affects humans and is VERY similar to Johnes is infecting dariy Vets way beyond the average American.

Check with your #3 Vet and find out if there is a Johnes testing program in your area. We have begun our herd testing, and are working towards a Johnes Free Status. In South Dakota selling Heifers or Bulls from a Johnes Free Herd does add higher value.

As for going back to your seller, I dought you'll ever find any evidence he ever had Johnes. Most states do not allow the Vet to expose information which would implicate the Farmer as being Johnes positive. In South Dakota if the Vet pulls blood for the test and the test is positive they are not allowed to relay that information to anyone beyond the USDA.

Hope this rambling helps.........John
 
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