A question on rent, and bull capacity

[Tower hills cattle]

I have started to get into the commercial cow/calf business with my father in law. I work full time in Seed corn production so this is going to be a sideline deal for me. My FIL has a small herd of cows, 16 red angus/gelbvieh cross cows 2-5 years old and 6 old PB charlais. This is also a sideline business for him, he is a pharmicist. We recently culled 8 other cows, and I have partnered with him on 8 hereford heifers bred angus. We are looking for a new bull (last bull is taking an eternal nap) and I was thinking about buying the bull and figuring it as rent for this year.
I guess I am looking for input as to what is fair "boarding fees" for my four cows, and would one angus bull be sufficient for 30 cows? I do help when ever possible working cows, feeding, fixing fence, and he told me that was all he needed for rent but I don't think that is quite fair. Also there are some siblings to my wife that might scream if we weren't paying anything.

We have more than enough pasture and hay to probably go to 45 cows in the future. Calving end of March and hopefully selling calves in Jan '07. Hopefully this gives enough background information for you all to form an opinion on this.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

This is not an advertisement...ok?

In answer to your inquiry about breeding & boarding fees, this is what we charge based on a "space available basis" for an "approved" customer:

On Site Bull Service: $50. per female (we have 4 bulls)
Female Boarding Charge: $2.50 per day per female
Any needed vaccinations, de-worming, Vet charges are responsibility of the customer for their female animals.

If we lease out a bull we do not use for breeding to our own females, we charge $250 a month (minimum charge) or $8.00 a day, whichever is more. Customer responsible for all cattle transportation involved.

In all instances we reserve the right to require a Vet Health Certificate on any animals brought here for breeding, if we do not know for sure the health status of a customer's female or ranch operation.

 

[Tower hills cattle]

Any other advice?

 

[Rod]

I've always been told to keep friends and family -"friends and family " and business- business. Another words i would keep this a straight up business deal! if needbe you pay lease on the place and he go in halfs with you on the bull. Friends, family and business never mixes well, kinda like oil and water.

 

[eric]

So really what you're asking is .....is letting him use your bull a fair exchange for you keeping your 1/2 of the 8 cows on his place? Seems fair to me. Actually, might be shortchanging yourself a little bit, but I sure wouldnt worry about it. Both of you are complimenting each other nicely, as long as you do help with the repair work and the expenses involved with the repair work and vaccinating. Before I bought my bull, I paid a neighbor $250 for use of his bull. He let me have him for about 90 days or so. Would of used him again but I wanted to change my calving season to March/April, and the timing just didnt work out for both of us. Thus the start over with new cows and my own bull.

As far as breeding capacity, I cant help you there.This is the first bull I've ever owned, and he wasnt but 18 mos old when I got him. He has bred my 9 cows with no problem, but I only have a small amt. of acreage, so there wasnt much chasing involved for him. But it was the heat of the summer in a record drought.
Hopefully some of the more experienced cattle folks will see this and respond for ya, not sure why they havent yet.

 

[Tower hills cattle]

Thanks Eric, thats the kind of input I was wanting. I have heard from one guy that $1 per cow per day is how he would figure a set-up like this. I guess by figuring that I thought I would spend $2500 or so on a bull that would take care of rent for two years plus a little cash. In talking this weekend with my FIL, We are just going to go partners on the bull and grow in partnership on more cows in the future. The other girls in the family have no interest in this what-so-ever right now so he said he and MIL aren't concerned about any possible rifts over this. But I guess that is when most problems start when you don't expect them.

If anyone else has input on this I would love to hear it. Also if you all think 1 bull for 30 cows is sufficient. Thanks.

 

[George]

Yes 1 angus bull,would be enough for 30 cows.I would recommend,a 2 year old bull though instead of a yearling.