A question for the experts. creep feeding pure bred calves

[Frankie]

I think you're putting words in my mouth again.

What point were you trying to make to Certherfbeef?

I don't see a post from Certherfbeef in this thread. I'm not going to search it down. If you can link to it, I'll respond....

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certherfbeef wrote:
Quote:
Does any one know of a bull of that has yearling ultrasound data of:
imf 5% or better
rea 1.3 sq.in. /cwt
b.f. <.3
yearling weight 1200# or greater
Any breed but must be purebred



Ollie, the back fat <.3 isn't back fat based on the condition that the animal carries? Then back fat would only be based on management and environment.
And how can it be used to compare animals if it is only a measure of the condition an animal carries? Or is it a mearsure of an animal's fleshing ability?
Please help me understand some of this. ~Missi


Missi, you're correct that backfat will vary according to the condition of the bull. Ribeye can also be affected by management. In fact, all the things Ollie mentioned are greatly affected by management. Breed associations take that performance info from hundreds of related animals, run the data through a complicated math formula and produce EPDs.

I believe I've posted links to several articles that showed management is important to backfat and carcass. Ribeye would also be affected. Surely even you would agree that genetically similar bulls fed a hot ration on performance test for 100 days would carry more backfat and have a larger ribeye than bulls turned out on grass (plain old pasture grass) alone for 100 days? But this has nothing to do with EPDs. EPDs are a measure of how a bull's calves are expected to perform, not his own performance.

 

[ollie]

I think you're putting words in my mouth again.

What point were you trying to make to Certherfbeef?

I don't see a post from Certherfbeef in this thread. I'm not going to search it down. If you can link to it, I'll respond....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
certherfbeef wrote:
Quote:
Does any one know of a bull of that has yearling ultrasound data of:
imf 5% or better
rea 1.3 sq.in. /cwt
b.f. <.3
yearling weight 1200# or greater
Any breed but must be purebred



Ollie, the back fat <.3 isn't back fat based on the condition that the animal carries? Then back fat would only be based on management and environment.
And how can it be used to compare animals if it is only a measure of the condition an animal carries? Or is it a mearsure of an animal's fleshing ability?
Please help me understand some of this. ~Missi


Missi, you're correct that backfat will vary according to the condition of the bull. Ribeye can also be affected by management. In fact, all the things Ollie mentioned are greatly affected by management. Breed associations take that performance info from hundreds of related animals, run the data through a complicated math formula and produce EPDs.

I believe I've posted links to several articles that showed management is important to backfat and carcass. Ribeye would also be affected. Surely even you would agree that genetically similar bulls fed a hot ration on performance test for 100 days would carry more backfat and have a larger ribeye than bulls turned out on grass (plain old pasture grass) alone for 100 days? But this has nothing to do with EPDs. EPDs are a measure of how a bull's calves are expected to perform, not his own performance.

Epd's as I have said before, don't have a value attatched to them. The numbers I posted are what it takes to improve a set of commercial heifers that I own. I agree that backfat and rea will increase with feed, But if you will read my post I didn't ask to know the rea size ,I asked rea/cwt which goes down the heavier a bull gets, or as you said the longer they are on a hot ration. Maybe you don't understand fully the relationship of carcass data and how it relates to feed. Individually each of those carcass data points are easily obtained but it sure gets hard to find a bull that will do all of them .