A.I. Sires

[Ryan]

So I was reading through the A.I. Sire Reference that was put out by the Texas Longhorn Breeders of America in its monthly publication, the Trails, in July, and I noticed that I, personally, would not use a vast majority of the bulls in there. By use I mean if I had their semen just sitting there in the tank or my neighbor owned the bull and offered to let me bring any of my cows over to get bred. When considering the bulls in the Reference I was thinking if I had a large herd of cows, of random genetics, but fit my phenotypic criteria. Basically, if I had the opportunity to use a bull, would I?

Since I had some extra time on my hands I went through and counted how many of the bulls I would use:
Of the 660 TLBAA A.I. Certified Texas Longhorn Bulls, I would use approximately 81 of the bulls. And, the latest certified bull that I would use was in the early 580's (The numbers for bulls are given out in order of which they are certified), so the last 80 or so bulls to be certified I would not use. Furthermore, of the ~140 - 150 bulls in advertisements in this issue of the Trails I counted and I would only use 5 of the advertised bulls (and 2 of them are from the ranch I currently work for).

I know there are many other bulls out there, not A.I. certified or advertised in that issue that i would use, but I found the numbers very interesting. Take it for what its worth, and that not much since it is only my opinion. Just thought I'd share.

Ryan

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

Ryan, I saw the same book as you and also looked thru the bulls available. Three things that bother me about the Longhorn "community" that come to mind, 1) genetics seemed to be getting more concentrated among a small group of bulls...this can't be good long term, 2) the high price of semen that some of these guys are asking, 3) the direction of this cloning business...

 

[Rustler9]

Ryan,
There's alot of bulls in there that I wouldn't consider using either, some seem to be bred for one trait or another and not the total package. There's alot of WR, Yates and Butler bulls as well as some others in there that seem to be bred for either body and no horn or horn and no body. But there are some old genetics in there that I wouldn't hesitate to use. I do recognize that we as individual breeders have different ideas and goals in our breeding programs. One bull that quickly comes to mind as an animal with a good combination of body and horn is Tin Horn. He's Butler on top and Yates on the bottom. He had 60' of horn 25 years ago with a conformation that would be very acceptable in my book. I have some Tin Horn blood in some of my herd.

There are several Texas Ranger bulls that I like because of the size and conformation that they bring to the table and would be good to blend. Of course I tend to lean toward Butler genetics because they do keep the horn in your herd and I truly believe that a Longhorn animal should look like one-that is to say that they should have enough horn length to be easily recognized as a respectful member of the breed. I don't believe in breeding an animal that has no substance and just horn as well as I don't believe in breeding an animal that has a big beefy body and no horn. One such animal that I see in there that I wouldn't touch is Sunrise Sorrillo. He's got the body of a beef bull, he has the coloring of a Longhorn but it stops right there. I see Horned Herefords with more horn than he has. I guess alot of show people like that kind of animal but the Longhorn characteristics are quickly fading. I know that the breed itself is not as standardized as other breeds-there are too many variables as to breeders preferences I guess but I'd like to see the breed somewhat streamlined into one type of animal more or less. Guess this will never happen but it seems that people are taking the breed from one extreme to another.

 

[Ryan]

Proverbs,
I agree with you for the most part, the only thing i might differ on is the price of semen. I think if you can still sell just as much of it at $100+ per straw as you could at $20 then more power to you, just business. I think the concentration of the genetics into a small group of bulls cannot be good for the longterm. I also think that the bulls being used to a high degree are bulls that should not be used this often, since most of the bulls advertised today are only sought after for one single trait, Horns. Single trait selection has never been a a good idea, but its the hot thing going today. The cloning situation is going to be a pretty sensitive subject in the longhorn industry for a little while i think. Not sure what the outcome will be, but i dont think that outcome or getting to that outcome will be all that good.

Ryan

 

[warpaint]

I tend to agree about the cloning business. It cannot be good for the breed.
About the AI Sire Refrence, all you have to do to get a bull in it is pay out the money to have him collected and certfied. I'm in agreement that there are a lot in there that I wouldn't care to use, but it is still a good way to reference some of the older bloodlines.

I don't remember off hand, but when it came out, I counted the number of new entries, and for the most part, didn't care for any of them.

 

[Ryan]

Ruster,
I definantly agree with you on the older genetics. As I was looking through I found a number of bulls from the 70's and 80's that i would not hesitate to use. Bulls like Quinado Fandango, I would really like to a.i. something to him. I could go on with a number of older bulls that i like.

One of the big deterents for me, I guess, is that I am on the other side of the fence than you...so to speak. I am not a fan of butler breeding, and horns do not play a major role in my decision making. I prefer bigger bodied, beef type longhorns. I know all my cattle have horns, and are registered longhorns. Some people disagree on how they "should" look, and thats fine... i like em though. When marking my book Sunrise Sorillo was one i had trouble with... I went ahead and marked him down as a yes, but i would used him selectively. He does have real good conformation, and genetics that i really like. His horns did bother me some, but since i have seen calves of his that i was impressed with i went ahead and decided i would use him.

I agree with you on your last statement... people are taking them from one extreme to the other.. and that gap in between the extremes is increasing a lot every generation.

Ryan

 

[Ryan]

...all you have to do to get a bull in it is pay out the money to have him collected and certfied. ...

actually on top of that you do have to have some tests run in regards to disease and have a semen test performed, plus have his parentage verified via dna testing of hair pulled from the tail.

 

[warpaint]

I should have made myself a little clearer. I kinda jumbled all that together in the pay out the money.

 

[Frankie]

Would you mind sharing the cloning issue? Is a cloned animal allowed in the food chain yet? Thanks...

 

[Brandonm2]

Would you mind sharing the cloning issue? Is a cloned animal allowed in the food chain yet? Thanks...

I could be wrong; but I thought FDA was still banning the sale of cloned beef and milk. All those cloned cows are SUPPOSED to be shot and put in a hole when their production life is thru although I believe their calves are treated like any other calf. I don't understand FDA's position on this issue one bit; but I think those are still the rules.

 

[Ryan]

Would you mind sharing the cloning issue? Is a cloned animal allowed in the food chain yet? Thanks...

Here is basically what I've gathered:

A small handful of breeders, have decided to clone what they think to be many of the top females in the breed. Most of it has been one breeder, alone and in partnership with the other breeders. I think he has cloned something like 20 females (including 1 clone and a heifer), and even 2 steers to bring them back as bulls. Here is a link to his website http://www.maranch.com The controversy over if it is right or wrong has been debated, a lot, and now since there have been so many cloned and to be cloned there is a fear that the over abundance of the top animals will drive the Longhorn market down. Basically, a larger supply will lead to lower prices. Plus, the reason these longhorns were selected is because they were "exceptional" (by that i mean they have some long horns), but if there are 10 more just like her, why would someone be willing to pay a premium for her. There has been a lot of debate about it, then a prominant breeder stated that he was against it, and it kind of blew up. There has even been some controversy over clones competing in shows and the Horn Showcase.

I think thats the basics of it. Iknow there is more to it. THere was even a Board of Directors meeting a couple weeks ago where there were some rules passed and rule changes in regard to cloning, among other things. I have yet to sit down and read the minutes yet, just skimmed through.

Ryan

 

[warpaint]

Well, if you can make heads or tails of it, let me know. Looked to me like a bunch of legalese.

The only thing I got from it was, that clones would be in a class by themselves.