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TexasBred

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Why is MLK day more important than Washington and Lincoln's birthday? When I was in school we had those two days off of school. Then it turned to one day for the both of them and one for MLK. Now it's only MLK, but not our ex presidents? Hmmmmm...
Have you not heard of Presidents Day ?
 

4hfarms

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I have, and it is no longer celebrated by schools as a day off, which was my point. It's not even on most calendars anymore.
 

Little Joe

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From everything I've read Lee was a very honorable man. I believe truly that the civil war was fought over states' rights and slavery was thrown in to punish the south, why else would thousands of men who never owned or would never have the means to own a slave fight and die for such a cause, and allow their children to die for it as well? That would be like all of us fighting a war so that Jeff Bezos can own Amazon, don't make much sense to say all of those men were fighting for some rich guys to own slaves. Also on the issue of slavery, if one did believe it okay to own slaves at that time that does not make him a dishonorable person, historical figures must be judged by the standards of the time and place in which they lived not today's standards. I'm sure if many of us were judged in 100 years for what we believe to be moral today that many in the future will find us dishonorable. I'm in no way saying one has the right to own another but at the same time the bible lays out how a slave is to obey his master and how a master is to treat his servant, if you look at it most of us are still slaves to some degree just not owned by someone. When my work phone rings I know I better answer it or else there will be consequences, not same as the type we're talking but I know if I want to support my family I have to do certain things that I might not like to do.
 

ChrisB2

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From what I remember from reading the articles of succession, slavery was arguably the driving force. But, I always wondered how much people really knew back then on both sides. No internet to investigate on your own, no t.v. or radio presenting alternate views, mostly local or regional papers and word of mouth. As easy as it is currently to influence people into believing certain things. Maybe it would have been much easier back then? Also, it may just be the movies, but it seemed men were anxious to go to war back then. Maybe just fighting for regional or state pride. Maybe the reasons for the war were not the same reasons that got people to fight in it.
 

shaz

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Empires were also the norm throughout human history. Using military might to bow people into vassal states. This behavior changes a lot in the 1950s because these empires were no longer profitable.
 

TexasBred

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From what I remember from reading the articles of succession, slavery was arguably the driving force. But, I always wondered how much people really knew back then on both sides. No internet to investigate on your own, no t.v. or radio presenting alternate views, mostly local or regional papers and word of mouth. As easy as it is currently to influence people into believing certain things. Maybe it would have been much easier back then? Also, it may just be the movies, but it seemed men were anxious to go to war back then. Maybe just fighting for regional or state pride. Maybe the reasons for the war were not the same reasons that got people to fight in it.
It’s simply. The union was fighting to preserve the union. The confederacy fought to preserve slavery.
 

RDFF

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The Ten Causes Of The War Between The States (ushist.com)

Read carefully the quoted historical exchange between English ship Captain Hillyar and Capt. Raphael Semmes-Confederate Ship CSS Sumter (and after 1862 CSS Alabama) which occurred during the war on August 5th, 1861... and in particular, notice that Semmes corrects Hillyar's erroneous assumption that the primary motivation for the South was over the issue of slavery.
 

SmokinM

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A good read RDFF thanks for posting. I am sure one of the others will be along shortly to tell us all that it is false information.
The truth is look at the similarities between then and now as many believe this country agains teeter on the brink of Civil War. There was then and is now huge cultural differences between rural and industrial America. At that time the difference between the two was largely geographical not as much now. To bad that part and so many other parts of our history is being removed from schools and life as it still teaches a lot of important lessons. Was not so much a war about Northern aggression as it was a war against Federal aggression. Just as the next one will be.
 

Son of Butch

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Odd that individuals who believe in manifest destiny have such a hard time
accepting the confederate defeat. "Thy will be done", is nothing more than
empty words to many.
 
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Ky hills

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A good read RDFF thanks for posting. I am sure one of the others will be along shortly to tell us all that it is false information.
The truth is look at the similarities between then and now as many believe this country agains teeter on the brink of Civil War. There was then and is now huge cultural differences between rural and industrial America. At that time the difference between the two was largely geographical not as much now. To bad that part and so many other parts of our history is being removed from schools and life as it still teaches a lot of important lessons. Was not so much a war about Northern aggression as it was a war against Federal aggression. Just as the next one will be.
Have been hearing talk from some for quite sometime about another secession. I agree with your point that it was/is a largely a rural/industrial divide, and that it isn’t as regional now. My thoughts have been that a secession would be much more difficult now due to the fact that it isn’t regional at this point. The larger cities and surrounding metropolitan areas in most states that could conceivably attempt such action amount to a large almost equal number in terms population compared to the more rural parts of a state. To me it looks like there would be considerable opposition from within states and even if it were to succeed there would be ongoing problems that likely would not ease up. I have no idea what the future holds but I don’t see a second secession movement happening like before.
 

SmokinM

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I don’t think you will see secession on a state level unless Texas pulls it off. Wouldn’t necessarily take secession for there to be a civil war. I am not a proponent as war is an awful thing but I see where choices are getting fewer and you can only bend so far before you break. A very large portion of this country is tired of not being heard and their ideals and freedoms stripped away. Then to add insult to injury that same portion of the population gets the bulk of the bill for it.
 

Lee VanRoss

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If Texas would pull the 'Rip Cord' I could see a mass migration of like minded people coming across the Arkansas River.
I would pray we get things resolved before it gets out of hand. ''You canna make broth from a bone of contention''.
 

RDFF

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Texas Independence Referendum Act

Don't see it ever happening or know how it would work (federally funded highways, social security, and other ties with the federal government).
And there you go as to how "they" gain "control" over you............... follow the money! And I'll say it again... be careful what you wish for, and I DO mean to include pretty much any kind of "subsidy... handout... bailout... farm program... "free" college... "free" health insurance........" Pretty much if they give you enough "free" stuff, the only free you no longer have is your "free-dom". You had to give it all away to get all those "goodies" from "the great [government] spirit"! They're ALL a working cog in that slippery slope machinery that moves further into socialism.
 

Caustic Burno

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Texas Independence Referendum Act

Don't see it ever happening or know how it would work (federally funded highways, social security, and other ties with the federal government).
Actually wouldn’t be that hard.
Texas has the majority of the refining capacity in the country.
Three largest refineries are located Port Arthur, Baytown and Texas City.
There is one unit alone in TC that produces 3% of all the gasoline in the USA.
Texas alone would be in the top five economies in the world. The USA would grind to a halt without those products.
Block in three pipelines and plenty of money would flow in.
Those southern boys shut down those refineries your not going to pick somebody off the street to restart them.
It’s not like flipping a light switch can take weeks if you have a Cracker Jack crew.
 

Son of Butch

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Texas alone would be in the top five economies in the world.
Actually Texas alone would currently be 8th in the world.
Behind #7 France - :) - and ahead of Italy.

1. USA gdp without Texas 19.5 trillion
2. China gdp 14.8 trillion
3. Japan 5.4 trillion
4. Germany 3.8 trillion
5. UK 3.3 trillion --- (#2 at the end of World War II, but now 5th)
6. India 3.1 trillion
7. France 2.7 trillion
8. Texas 2.0 trillion
8. Italy 1.9 trillion
9. Brazil 1.8 trillion
10 Canada 1.7 trillion
11 Australia 1.4 trillion

China is #1 in gdp to debt ratio and Australia is #2
USA isn't in the top 20 with 21.5 trillion gdp and 28 trillion national debt

Pop Quiz
China's 800 billion loan to Obama now = 1.1 trillion dollars.
Who is in trouble? - answer - That's China's problem not mine.
USA fiscal policy over last 12 years proves USA has no intention of ever
repaying debts. The day will come....

China: Where's my money?
USA: LOL - we've got missiles and we've used them before. We good?
Yeah, I thought so - don't let the door hit you on the way out."

Of course we'll need the boys from Idaho - Missouri - Texas, without them
usa wouldn't have the balls to follow through.
 
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Caustic Burno

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Actually Texas alone would currently be 8th in the world.
Behind #7 France - :) - and ahead of Italy.

1. USA gdp without Texas 19.5 trillion
2. China gdp 14.8 trillion
3. Japan 5.4 trillion
4. Germany 3.8 trillion
5. UK 3.3 trillion --- (#2 at the end of World War II, but now 5th)
6. India 3.1 trillion
7. France 2.7 trillion
8. Texas 2.0 trillion
8. Italy 1.9 trillion
9. Brazil 1.8 trillion
10 Canada 1.7 trillion
11 Australia 1.4 trillion

China is #1 in gdp to debt ratio and Australia is #2
USA isn't in the top 20 with 21.5 trillion gdp and 28 trillion national debt

Pop Quiz
China's 800 billion loan to Obama now = 1.1 trillion dollars.
Who is in trouble? - answer - That's China's problem not mine.
USA fiscal policy over last 12 years proves USA has no intention of ever
repaying debts. The day will come....

China: Where's my money?
USA: LOL - we've got missiles and we've used them before. We good?
Yeah, I thought so - don't let the door hit you on the way out."

Of course we'll need the boys from Idaho - Missouri - Texas, without them
usa wouldn't have the balls to follow through.
Wouldn’t be after we raise the price a dollar a gallon for everyone outside the Republic of Texas.
Just let y’all keep paying those “ federal funds”
 

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