A ? for all you breeders

[LFF]

On the fall calvers I bought, I'm gonna' use a composite bull, 1/2 angus, 1/4 simmi,1/4 south devon. I'm not keeping and replacements out of thess cows, just selling pounds of calf. gs

Please don't take this personal , however with more than three breeds mixed in a control manner, you lose all your hybid vigor. All that you have left is a Heinse 57 mix or mutt. All studies show that the first time you cross two purebreeds you gain the most amount of vigor and a second cross to another purebreed of a different breed , will increase vigor once again. Any futher cross scrambles the make up so bad that you lose all consistency and vigor. The commercial cattle are the meat and potatoes of the industry , however many are missing out on the most profitable means of producing them.

 

[plumber_greg]

Then when you have no idea what the crosses are in a bunch of cattle, what do you breed them to? Very few cattle are F-1 crosses, at least that I can buy, so where does the limits of hybird vigor come in? gs

 

[KNERSIE]

Then when you have no idea what the crosses are in a bunch of cattle, what do you breed them to? Very few cattle are F-1 crosses, at least that I can buy, so where does the limits of hybird vigor come in? gs

In a situation where the cowherd is crossed to the point of confusion you'll be better off using a purebred bull to try and create some consistancy in the calfcrop. In most cases uniform looking groups will outsell a mixed bunch of similar quality.

 

[plumber_greg]

I understand and don't necessarily disagree, however, when does a breeder decide when to cross those type of cattle. Say cross them with a char., do you use a different breed when they're all white? I understand the hybird vigor thing, just don't know how to tell when enough of one breed is enough if we're keeping them back to breed or selling as feeders that may go back to be bred. Ideally they would all be terminal calves, but some keep heifers. gs

 

[CowpokeJ]

Simmental, Gelby, and maybe a gert. Depending on what you wanted to do with the calves.

 

[LFF]

I understand and don't necessarily disagree, however, when does a breeder decide when to cross those type of cattle. Say cross them with a char., do you use a different breed when they're all white? I understand the hybird vigor thing, just don't know how to tell when enough of one breed is enough if we're keeping them back to breed or selling as feeders that may go back to be bred. Ideally they would all be terminal calves, but some keep heifers. gs

This is a loaded guestion. It is going to be different for each producer. Factors such as enviroment , management style, and individual goals are deciding factors. Even if you are happy with the size and preformance of you current cows and they give you a uniform set of calves, it still depends on your goals. For example if you want to sell all your calves at the local market buy a terminal purebred bull that will add lots of groweth and improve consistency. If you want to retain easier doing heifers look at the British breeds. I really can not make a recommendation for you without knowing much more about your operation. I would suggest, if you are retaining heifers, use one breed of bulls on your herd until you have a consistent herd of cows then add a different breed. That will not happen over night and you will need to prepare for the long haul.

 

[cfpinz]

Some of the highest selling bulls at the test stations in VA are now Simangus.

You must have just gotten the newest VA Cattleman paper, read that last night.

Depending on where the heifers are and where you want to go with the calves, I'd breed them to either a herf or a gelbvieh. Just depends on which calves suit your purpose.

 

[Brandonm22]

IF you keep heifers from every cross the simplest way to get the most hybrid vigour is the 3 way rotation like this....

Angus x Hereford x Charolais (just for an example) and then repeat the process. This is pretty easy and simple with one set of cows; but as your herd ages it can get complicated with three different groups of cows needing three different breeds of bull and you don't want to use Charolais bulls on heifers so a lot of compromises gets made making this a little overly complex.

IF you want to maximize the heterosis you can go roto-terminal like this.....

Angus x Hereford to produce an F1 hybrid then cross those F1s to a third breed like the Charolais. The problem with this system is that you have to maintain a small pure set of cows to provide you with the F1 replacements you need or find somebody reliable you can buy F1 heifers from.

The complexity of the systems is why a lot of people either chunk crossbreeding altogether or they go to a composite like the SimAngus.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

To truly benefit from a crossbreeding program, it has been proven over & over, you should cross British with Continental.
Therefore, I would suggest my breed - SIMMENTAL. SimAngus makes a great feedlot animal or mama cow. You have the best of both worlds. And you can keep them polled and black for future generations.

 

[TexasBred]

I am sorry these are commercial hfrs
and Frankie I have sent the test in on my FD bulls but I haven't received the results yet

Quite a few folks out in the neck of the woods running Charolais with their angus cattle. Seems to work for them.