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A Discussion About EPDs
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<blockquote data-quote="DOC HARRIS" data-source="post: 379550" data-attributes="member: 1683"><p>George-</p><p></p><p>Yes, there are Angus Breeder's who discount the Values of EPD's, just as I think that there are breeder's of EVERY breed who discount EPD values. . . . .and I think with good reason! Your comment:</p><p></p><p></p><p>By chasing growth EPD's and not focusing on efficiency, Hereford breeders are creating large cattle. My experience is that dams reach mature weight at approximately five years. I have sold mature Hereford cattle bought from well-known, reputable Hereford breeders, that weighed in excess of 1800 pounds. I sold one cow that exceeded 2000 pounds. I am confident that Hereford cows exist that can consistently wean calves at more than 600 pounds, up from about 450 pounds 30 years ago. I believe the current cows, however, exceed 1500 pounds at maturity whereas than cows 30 years ago likely were at least 300 pounds lighter. From an efficiency standpoint, a 450 pound calf from a 1200 pound dam equals a 600 pound calf from a 1500 pound dam. </p><p></p><p> </p><p>You are ABSOLUTELY correct! The nation's "Cow Herd" average weights are absurdly high, and chasing growth EPD's, along with too high Milk EPD's are the essential operative causes of it!</p><p></p><p>The EPD "game" has been hamstrung and hampered to the point of "suffocation of numbers" in recent years by the 'overdoing' of a good thing. The original purposes of EPD's were to help breeders to improve their breeding decisions. IN MY OPINION, until we USE the technology of DNA testing to enhance the accuracy of EPD's, we will continue to confuse breeders, instigate arguments as assinine as those "discussions" as to whether a Ford or a Chevrolet is the better vehicle - and that is not even mentioning Dodge or Toyota!</p><p></p><p>Certain Breed Associations have included additional EPD's in the mix for various traits - docility, back fat, combining two traits into one, throwing accuracies to the wolves insofar as viability and practicality is concerned - and <em><strong>that</strong></em>, In My Opinion, has done damage to the reliability of acceptance and significance to the average Beef Breeder of ALL breeds!</p><p></p><p>I am a strong advocate of anything which can be of legitimate assistance to a breeder in his business. However, this current headlong rush to discover something - ANYTHING - which will substitute for good common sense, and encourage a breeder to practice flat out laziness and to "Breed By The Numbers" - EPD numbers ONLY, is similar to building a house with Leggo Blocks and ignoring the foundation. As it is with almost anything, if you play around with something of value long enough, presently it is overdone, and becomes more trouble than it is worth and very quickly is useless. I feel that the obsession and fixation of EPD's as the "Golden Fleece" of beef breeding has reached that point, and as a result the "believers vs. the non-believers" argument has resulted in a misunderstanding that is hurting everyone! </p><p></p><p>To concentrate on EPD's - ONLY - in a breeding program and ignore Phenotype and Percentages of Heritability is a formula for disaster in a livestock operation. It MUST be a balancing act, and NOT a single trait selection function. And the best way to really know what you are doing with the EPD game, is to thoroughly understand the rules, and how the "game" is played! </p><p></p><p>My advice is to take a deep breath - wipe the cobwebs from your mind and concentrate on MODERATION in trait selection. If one attempts to remember and understand ALL of these "perfect answers" to the Beef Producers Problems, you are going to find yourself staring at the ceiling at 3:00 AM and wondering what happened to Clarabelle Cow and Ferdinand the Bull!</p><p></p><p>DOC HARRIS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DOC HARRIS, post: 379550, member: 1683"] George- Yes, there are Angus Breeder's who discount the Values of EPD's, just as I think that there are breeder's of EVERY breed who discount EPD values. . . . .and I think with good reason! Your comment: By chasing growth EPD’s and not focusing on efficiency, Hereford breeders are creating large cattle. My experience is that dams reach mature weight at approximately five years. I have sold mature Hereford cattle bought from well-known, reputable Hereford breeders, that weighed in excess of 1800 pounds. I sold one cow that exceeded 2000 pounds. I am confident that Hereford cows exist that can consistently wean calves at more than 600 pounds, up from about 450 pounds 30 years ago. I believe the current cows, however, exceed 1500 pounds at maturity whereas than cows 30 years ago likely were at least 300 pounds lighter. From an efficiency standpoint, a 450 pound calf from a 1200 pound dam equals a 600 pound calf from a 1500 pound dam. You are ABSOLUTELY correct! The nation's "Cow Herd" average weights are absurdly high, and chasing growth EPD's, along with too high Milk EPD's are the essential operative causes of it! The EPD "game" has been hamstrung and hampered to the point of "suffocation of numbers" in recent years by the 'overdoing' of a good thing. The original purposes of EPD's were to help breeders to improve their breeding decisions. IN MY OPINION, until we USE the technology of DNA testing to enhance the accuracy of EPD's, we will continue to confuse breeders, instigate arguments as assinine as those "discussions" as to whether a Ford or a Chevrolet is the better vehicle - and that is not even mentioning Dodge or Toyota! Certain Breed Associations have included additional EPD's in the mix for various traits - docility, back fat, combining two traits into one, throwing accuracies to the wolves insofar as viability and practicality is concerned - and [i][b]that[/b][/i], In My Opinion, has done damage to the reliability of acceptance and significance to the average Beef Breeder of ALL breeds! I am a strong advocate of anything which can be of legitimate assistance to a breeder in his business. However, this current headlong rush to discover something - ANYTHING - which will substitute for good common sense, and encourage a breeder to practice flat out laziness and to "Breed By The Numbers" - EPD numbers ONLY, is similar to building a house with Leggo Blocks and ignoring the foundation. As it is with almost anything, if you play around with something of value long enough, presently it is overdone, and becomes more trouble than it is worth and very quickly is useless. I feel that the obsession and fixation of EPD's as the "Golden Fleece" of beef breeding has reached that point, and as a result the "believers vs. the non-believers" argument has resulted in a misunderstanding that is hurting everyone! To concentrate on EPD's - ONLY - in a breeding program and ignore Phenotype and Percentages of Heritability is a formula for disaster in a livestock operation. It MUST be a balancing act, and NOT a single trait selection function. And the best way to really know what you are doing with the EPD game, is to thoroughly understand the rules, and how the "game" is played! My advice is to take a deep breath - wipe the cobwebs from your mind and concentrate on MODERATION in trait selection. If one attempts to remember and understand ALL of these "perfect answers" to the Beef Producers Problems, you are going to find yourself staring at the ceiling at 3:00 AM and wondering what happened to Clarabelle Cow and Ferdinand the Bull! DOC HARRIS [/QUOTE]
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