7 degrees of separation: The angus breed of the future?

[Ebenezer]

"I have yet to see any of these genetic defects have any significant effect on the actual end user, the commercial cattle producer."
You might want to get out more or learn more of the details of the defects before you reach a firm opinion. Some of the most recent defect(s) included early embryonic death so that you and others never saw the problem but had late calving animals. But I know a number who had to scrap the bull, lost calves, culled all heifers as potential replacements, ... Mere late calving = lost income. And I do not believe that 036 got clear sailing in the USA. The genetic tests are probably more reliable than a 30 daughter test of the old way if that is the reference.

 

[Nesikep]

"I have yet to see any of these genetic defects have any significant effect on the actual end user, the commercial cattle producer."
You might want to get out more or learn more of the details of the defects before you reach a firm opinion. Some of the most recent defect(s) included early embryonic death so that you and others never saw the problem but had late calving animals. But I know a number who had to scrap the bull, lost calves, culled all heifers as potential replacements, ... Mere late calving = lost income. And I do not believe that 036 got clear sailing in the USA. The genetic tests are probably more reliable than a 30 daughter test of the old way if that is the reference.

The genetic tests are only good if you know what you're looking for.. you have to have an affected animal first to know what to look for,.. I don't think genetic tests will reveal a defect before that.. you still need the linebreeding first to find the issue, then you do genetic testing to see what is wrong, then you make a test that reveals it in carriers

 

[wbvs58]

"I have yet to see any of these genetic defects have any significant effect on the actual end user, the commercial cattle producer."
You might want to get out more or learn more of the details of the defects before you reach a firm opinion. Some of the most recent defect(s) included early embryonic death so that you and others never saw the problem but had late calving animals. But I know a number who had to scrap the bull, lost calves, culled all heifers as potential replacements, ... Mere late calving = lost income. And I do not believe that 036 got clear sailing in the USA. The genetic tests are probably more reliable than a 30 daughter test of the old way if that is the reference.

Culling all heifers is just an unknowledgable over reaction. All these problems to date are recessive conditions so in a commercial herd if you did see a problem then it is easy to move away from it by just changing a bull, just another reason for the benefits of using pure bred registered bull especially Angus, it is very easy just to look up their genetic defect status.

As far as early embryonic deaths go I am assuming you are referring to the last defect DD, the actual origin going back to 036 and possibly longer. If you look at his date of birth 1990, it was 20 plus years before DD was discovered. If it was a problem to a commercial producer then it took them a bluddy long time to realise it was a problem. I know people who used 036 heavily and they consider his line to be amongst their most fertile cows. I only came into registered Angus a bit over 10 years ago at the end of the 036 era and my experience with them would confirm them as being very productive fertile cows.

Ken

 

[Son of Butch]

As previously discussed the problem with DD as a genetic defect isn't the very rare DD calf born, it's the unseen
embryonic deaths it causes when crossed with another dd carrier.
Both Predestined and GAR 5050 dd carriers and in bottom 20% and 5% hp.
How much drag on fertility is caused by DD is unknown, but it does lower fertility.
036 is in bottom 30% hp, 25% lower than expected based on scrotal circumference.

Many loved 036 and Predestined daughters, but even in their hey-day they had a very low percentage of pathfinder
daughters, disproportionately so when compared to all of the bragging by their owners.

 

[Ebenezer]

You cannot rewrite history without a skew. Have some semen on an 036 son if you'd like it. I've proven that he is a carrier, too. Just the facts, Mam. Keep talking the great fertility thing up too. Might make the semen worth more for me to sell to the unknowing!

 

[Cdcollett]

Enough with the imbreeding defect talk. What's the future of the breed?
I'm interested in the Double Vision cattle. They seem to have some substance along with carcass quality, good feet and moderate calving ease as apposed to the extreme calving ease that I think has gone too far. With Third Dimension and Acclaim I think that line will continue to grow. There countless other lines. Thoughts?

 

[wbvs58]

A lot of people like to knock the breed but the feedlots still like to feed them. And over here I don't see any other breed ready to take over

Ken

 

[True Grit Farms]

Angus is leading the way in requirements to find defects and then doing something about them. I'm confident I can find a Angus bull that will do what I want. The other breeds seem to be worried more about the number registration$ than the defects in their breed.

 

[Gators Rule]

TGF, I don't think there is one breed association that the number of new registrations is not their #1 goal, or measuring stick. Not saying associations don't provide solutions, but AAA, ASA, and the others measure themselves based on their new digits. Incidentally, is it possible that AAA is leading the way in requirements....because they are leading the way in the number of problems? I'm asking, not saying, as I have no idea what the angus requirements are, nor am I an expert on their problems. Haven't had a registered angus on the farm in 45-50 years, until last week. Now have 3.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Gators Rule, I had two spotted calves using a Hereford bull on Simmental cows and the AHA didn't seem to care. Offered to send blood and hair samples, ended up just emailing a copy of the bull registration. And never heard a word back. And the ASA said the Hereford bull was the problem. I've never delt with the AAA yet but I'm fixing to with a bull issue.

 

[Gators Rule]

I think most would rather we just shut up and not let the cat out of the bag, per se.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I think most would rather we just shut up and not let the cat out of the bag, per se.

That'll make the breed better.

 

[Ebenezer]

"is it possible that AAA is leading the way in requirements....because they are leading the way in the number of problems?"
My opinion: they have a upper echelon with an elitist attitude that has been drug into the need to deal with some of the problems. They swept them under the rug as long as they could. There are still problems being ignored but clean boys don't want to get their meeting clothes dirty or want to socialize with peons. Cattle breeding, real cattle breeding, is a low priority. A government all to itself with the problems of government: nepotism, buddy-buddy, hidden bad deals, secret meetings, members treated as low class. It has been growing a long time. I do not expect to see better: too much money in CAB. Tail wagging the dog.

 

[WalnutCrest]

It stacks defects so those critters can be culled. This is a good thing!