600,000 Jobs on the Horizon...

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Just Curious

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I can't remember names, but numbers have always been sort of a strong suit... Where do these people come up with number like these?
I was at our annual Stockgrowers dinner about two weeks ago. The guest speaker was from someplace in Utah and gave a presentation on the benefits of going Green as far as energy is concerned...
I found it to be an interesting presentation (although odd for a Stockgrowers meeting) with real graphs and numeric stats that I haven't seen in awhile, since moving to a less technical environment...
The subject stemmed from how our coal producing form of energy is bad for our environment and that some folks would rather create alternative energy sources in the forms of wind and solar...
My educational and common sense background raised all kinds of red flags....
This will mean more New Jobs...
Sure at a loss of the old coal producing energy jobs...
More power! Except when it's cloudy or there's no wind... Not to mention that the technology is so much more expensive and less efficient...
I mean if it was that cost effective, why haven't you or I already jumped on this bandwagon and equipped our homes AND saved all kinds of $$$..
I hate numbers....
Semper Fi~!
 

Aaron

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Just Curious":2cd5rw9u said:
I can't remember names, but numbers have always been sort of a strong suit... Where do these people come up with number like these?
I was at our annual Stockgrowers dinner about two weeks ago. The guest speaker was from someplace in Utah and gave a presentation on the benefits of going Green as far as energy is concerned...
I found it to be an interesting presentation (although odd for a Stockgrowers meeting) with real graphs and numeric stats that I haven't seen in awhile, since moving to a less technical environment...
The subject stemmed from how our coal producing form of energy is bad for our environment and that some folks would rather create alternative energy sources in the forms of wind and solar...
My educational and common sense background raised all kinds of red flags....
This will mean more New Jobs...
Sure at a loss of the old coal producing energy jobs...
More power! Except when it's cloudy or there's no wind... Not to mention that the technology is so much more expensive and less efficient...
I mean if it was that cost effective, why haven't you or I already jumped on this bandwagon and equipped our homes AND saved all kinds of $$$..
I hate numbers....
Semper Fi~!

A few years ago now, a local fella with a young family equipped his new trailer home into the 'new-age' energy home. Solar panels across every square inch of the roof, a 30 foot wind turbine, a small shed full of batteries and a propane heating system. Completely independent of the electric grid.

Forward a month into the winter up here and all of the appliances were converted to propane-powered units and a generator running outside. And not even one full year had past and the hydro crews were busy putting poles into the yard. :cowboy: :lol2: Propane was replaced with an outdoor wood stove and the wind turbine and solar panels were taken out.
 

Fred

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Smoke and mirrors. No way we can replace oil and coal with wind and solar power. All those green jobs are a joke too.
 

Jogeephus

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There are a lot of new jobs and a lot of money to be made in this greenery business. Ethics, honesty and values will keep many out of these fields but greed should fill any vacancies. My main question is, "are these options self sustaining without gov't subsidies?". Their argument is that you can't expect a fledgling industry to successfully fly right out of the nest so a hand up is in order till it gets on its feet". I think three generations have shown that many prefer a hand out rather than a hand up but that's another topic.

Last month there was a seminar on this subject in Colorado with many prominant speakers. When asked whether the carbon sequestering was an effective way of curbing carbon emmissions or simply a tax disguised as a shell game. Speaker admitted that the sequestering did notthing to directly benefit the environment but indirectly it did from the stand point of imposing higher costs on industry thus forcing them to look at alternatives plus monies (taxes) generated from this could be used to subsidize the alternatives.

More recently, I attended a greenery meeting concerning one of these alternatives - bio fuels. Seems a land grant university came up with a grass that would produce 25 tons of fiber per acre which would make 100 gals of ethanol. The wonderful thing about this plant is that - according to them - it does not require fertilizer once established and it will not deplete the soil. On top of this, their charts and graphs showed you would make $2500/acre with minimal if any input AND the gov't would pay you to do this. On top of this, we would be saving american lives since our soldiers will no longer have to invade countries for oil.(his words not mine) This would stop our dependence on foreign oil. Of course this golden opportunity to save the world, save the lives of our soldiers while getting rich to boot would come at a small cost. $30,000 for 1200 sprigs a $100,000 if I wanted to really get rich. (of all days to leave the check book at the house)

Probably just me but this just didn't settle well with me. I'm all for severing dependence on foreign oil and for saving lives. Also don't mind making a dollar - especially if I actually get to keep my earnings - but if this is such a good deal for our country why don't they give us the seedstock so we can work together and gain energy independance instead of selling the stock like snake oil. Was it not our tax dollars that originally paid for the research? I may be wrong but I just always thought land grant universities were working for the taxpayer.

Nevetheless, I'll straddle the fence on this one to. Seems I'm good at that. The good thing is this board reaches out to a lot of people who can give info on a subject and using their figures I can ask a few questions and maybe get some answers. First is based on the info given. They say that their is 37,000 acres of this grass is planted in England and it is working really well. Anyone know about this? Secondly is, are there any people raising switch grass for biofuels? If so, based on the figures given in the meeting the switch grass producers should be making about $1,250 per acre per year. Does this sound about right or was this simply sales talk? Or should I just toss my morals and hire a sales staff and peddle this stuff?
 

Tommy Ruyle

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I know our university (U of I) is working on a number of these grasses. The numbers are there! Once established, and its not that expensive, an extremely large amount of mass can be grow per acre, plus they are perennial plants, so no re-seeding.

The one MAJOR problem is transportation costs of the bio-mass, i.e. you have to be REAL close to a bio-plant or the transportation cost eat up an "potential" profits. Think of hauling corn silage eighty or one hundred miles to the silo; that won't work, Because it is green bio-mass, a very large percentage is water, which makes it too expensive to haul very far.
 

Jogeephus

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Tommy Ruyle":2lt0phc4 said:
The numbers are there!

What numbers? Production or income numbers or both? I could maybe see the tonnage figures but I don't believe you can just take from the land without putting something back. (according to them, the nutrients translocate back into the ground in the fall)

Tommy Ruyle":2lt0phc4 said:
The one MAJOR problem is transportation costs of the bio-mass, i.e. you have to be REAL close to a bio-plant or the transportation cost eat up an "potential" profits. Because it is green bio-mass, a very large percentage is water, which makes it too expensive to haul very far.
.

I agree, hauling water is expensive but this is supposed to be cut only after the frost when its died back and dry but its going to be as bulky as hauling hay - I suspect. If this is actually a viable alternative they need to be doing everything possible to put these plants in every county in the country.

Guess I'm just gun shy but I'd come much nearer believing the science if the one doing the explaining didn't have his hand out.
 

F350

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anyone know what are these miracle plants called? i have some chinese tallow trees that i would give ya'll for free for makin' bio fuel. heck everyone in south louisiana and se texas will let anyone have them.
imho anyone bringing in non-native plants for fun, fuel, or whatever needs to be horsewhipped.
 

Ryder

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F350":qh0ixxcl said:
anyone know what are these miracle plants called? i have some chinese tallow trees that i would give ya'll for free for makin' bio fuel. heck everyone in south louisiana and se texas will let anyone have them.
imho anyone bringing in non-native plants for fun, fuel, or whatever needs to be horsewhipped.
You sure got that right. :mad:
A while back I saw something about LSU doing research on them to be used as fuel. But I think maybe it was a different variety you would have to plant. Not sure on this.
 

TexasBred

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F350":3vpo5oym said:
anyone know what are these miracle plants called? i have some chinese tallow trees that i would give ya'll for free for makin' bio fuel. heck everyone in south louisiana and se texas will let anyone have them.
imho anyone bringing in non-native plants for fun, fuel, or whatever needs to be horsewhipped.

What's worse....chine tallow or fruitless mulberry?? My dad planted one of each years ago. Gotta a dam forrest of the things now....EVERYWHERE!!!!!!
 

Jogeephus

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F350":2z8bdjjd said:
anyone know what are these miracle plants called? i have some chinese tallow trees that i would give ya'll for free for makin' bio fuel. heck everyone in south louisiana and se texas will let anyone have them.
imho anyone bringing in non-native plants for fun, fuel, or whatever needs to be horsewhipped.

Miscanthus. They say its sterile and will not spread by seed however the horticultural industry said the same thing about another form of miscanthus and it is now growing rampant on the edges of the blue ridge parkway.

Off the subject but did you know you can get some stimulus money for killing your tallow trees. Don't know what your feelings are about a handout but its there to those you want it. Might even be stimulating. ;-)
 

F350

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Jogeephus":1rep1qz6 said:
F350":1rep1qz6 said:
anyone know what are these miracle plants called? i have some chinese tallow trees that i would give ya'll for free for makin' bio fuel. heck everyone in south louisiana and se texas will let anyone have them.
imho anyone bringing in non-native plants for fun, fuel, or whatever needs to be horsewhipped.

Miscanthus. They say its sterile and will not spread by seed however the horticultural industry said the same thing about another form of miscanthus and it is now growing rampant on the edges of the blue ridge parkway.

Off the subject but did you know you can get some stimulus money for killing your tallow trees. Don't know what your feelings are about a handout but its there to those you want it. Might even be stimulating. ;-)


Sounds like my taxes will be stimulated...tallow trees definitely need to be controlled. I've got them off my land, but you need constant surveillance to KEEP them off. I've watched an 80 acre place down the road go from good grazing land to a tallow tree forest in 10 years. Worthless, good for nothing stuff.
 

HEREFORD ROADHOG

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let me get this all straight. when we had a few winters that there was not very much snow,or real cold temps ,it was caused by "global warming". this year the snow is waist deep & yesterday was the 1st day this month we made it to 32 degrees. I heard the explanation on the news this is also caused by "global Warming" . Thanks alot Al Gore. What a crock of @$%&. :mad:
 

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