2005 Black Hereford Models

[texbulldog]

Some new pictures of Monty''s black hereford calves. 3 new bulls and about 20 more on the way. These will be for sale at about the yearling stage. Visit our website and let us know you visited. http://www.jbarbcattle.com

They are about three weeks to 7 weeks old

Good looking breeder prospects.

 

[Caustic Burno]

We all know you have Black baldies quit advertising.

 

[stocky]

those are definitely outstanding calves. you said "black herefords" are they full blood hereford cows bred to a full blood black angus bull, or are we looking at some other mixture to make a new breed called "black hereford" like they have done with black limousin and black simmental, etc?

 

[Australian Cattleman]

How did you breed them?
Colin

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

" Black herefords " Just don't sound right. :cboy:

 

[texbulldog]

These registered Black Hereford calves were the result of breeding registered hereford cattle to our registered Black Hereford bull. To find out information about Black Herefords go to http://www.blackherefords.com

 

[Bez]

And just where did the "registered" black bull come from?

I am curious to know who and what registered anything called a Black Hereford.

And just who IS registering those new black animals. Certainly not the Hereford Associations of North America, Britain, Australia and so on.

Haven't we been through this before?

Bez

 

[txag]

Haven't we been through this before?

yep.

http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 31&start=0

 

[Oldtimer]

I'll throw in my two cents worth--Might as well have another breed.., I have to kind of laugh when I hear people talk about everyone wanting to get a more consistent beef product...I'd say fifty years ago we probably had a much more consistent product-- almost everything in our country was hereford-- any crossbreeding was done was shorthorn-- then along came angus and the good old black baldies-- then the continental came and all hell broke loose--chars, simmies, limis, gelvieh, saddle horse sized salers, chianinas, etc......Everything went all over the board for cow size and beef consistency and quality... Then everything had to be black to sell-black simmentals, black gelvieh, black limousin, black charolais- now black hereford.. We have composites, stabylizers, rangemakers, balancers. limo flexs, probably a half dozen other names for crossbreds and 2 or 3 new breeds--whats wrong with another one? Maybe we're just getting back to where we should have stayed-- the good old black baldy cow........

 

[jscunn]

I dont want to stir the pot, but I KNOW that a Reg. Angus bull and a hereford cow will not produce color patterns that uniform. I see about 60 Black Baldies a year (neighbor) and his and ours are have everything under the sun as far as color pattern. For Example our Register Hereford cow has had four calves by four different registered Angus Bulls and here are the color patterns of the calves faces : 1- Blaze face, 2- Black Hour glass in between eyes, 3- White face with black left eye. 4 - Normal white face. I would guess that the "black Herford bull" has enough Herford in him to throw a good color pattern. (My guess is 50/50 or 3/4 Herford).

In response to the forth coming email by TXAG or whoever. No I dont believe he is pure Herford. I know enough about Genetics and human nature to understand recessive color genes, but join the club LIMMYs and SIMMYs got black the same way you are doing it. No Holstein jokes please. I also understand how Angus cattle got their frame.

 

[ollie]

I'll throw in my two cents worth--Might as well have another breed.., I have to kind of laugh when I hear people talk about everyone wanting to get a more consistent beef product...I'd say fifty years ago we probably had a much more consistent product-- almost everything in our country was hereford-- any crossbreeding was done was shorthorn-- then along came angus and the good old black baldies-- then the continental came and all hell broke loose--chars, simmies, limis, gelvieh, saddle horse sized salers, chianinas, etc......Everything went all over the board for cow size and beef consistency and quality... Then everything had to be black to sell-black simmentals, black gelvieh, black limousin, black charolais- now black hereford.. We have composites, stabylizers, rangemakers, balancers. limo flexs, probably a half dozen other names for crossbreds and 2 or 3 new breeds--whats wrong with another one?

OT I don't know where your getting your info but from what I have heard the Angus breed was winning the Chicago fat carcass contest year after year in the fifties. I would say they were pretty common before 1955. Regarding continentals, the beef industry has made lots of improvements in carcass quality and in feed efficiency in the last fifty years. Some of that may be due to the influx of higher yielding and faster gaining continentals. I would say there are balancers for example that would put most anything raised in the fifties to shame any way you want to evaluate them. We no longer have to feed them till they are 3.

 

[txag]

No I dont believe he is pure Herford. I know enough about Genetics and human nature to understand recessive color genes, but join the club LIMMYs and SIMMYs got black the same way you are doing it.

the difference is that the limousin & simmental & maine (& etc) associations allow breeding up. the American Hereford Association does not and does not recognize these as herefords!

 

[Bez]

Txag wrote:

the difference is that the limousin & simmental & maine (& etc) associations allow breeding up. the American Hereford Association does not and does not recognize these as herefords!

Hah!!

Caught you - YOU are oh so WRONG!!!

That'll teach you - finally - you made a public mistake!!

In fact I better go easy on you though - you see, there is NO Hereford Association - national or international that will allow breeding up. 8)

At least to the best of my knowledge. I was wrong at least once - and my wife was quite happy to correct me.

So you were only part wrong and I better be nice or you will bite my head off.

Stay well

Bez

 

[Caustic Burno]

Bez you better head for the woods the way I read Txag post was the Hereford association does not allow breeding up.

 

[Bez]

Caustic - you'd best re-read the post - in fact I was having fun - and I also agreed with Txag - I just took the long way aroud to make the point - the only mistake Txag really made was to not mention that all the Herf orgs in the world are in agreement - NO breeding up!

None of them allow it.

Take care,

Bez

 

[Oldtimer]

I'll throw in my two cents worth--Might as well have another breed.., I have to kind of laugh when I hear people talk about everyone wanting to get a more consistent beef product...I'd say fifty years ago we probably had a much more consistent product-- almost everything in our country was hereford-- any crossbreeding was done was shorthorn-- then along came angus and the good old black baldies-- then the continental came and all hell broke loose--chars, simmies, limis, gelvieh, saddle horse sized salers, chianinas, etc......Everything went all over the board for cow size and beef consistency and quality... Then everything had to be black to sell-black simmentals, black gelvieh, black limousin, black charolais- now black hereford.. We have composites, stabylizers, rangemakers, balancers. limo flexs, probably a half dozen other names for crossbreds and 2 or 3 new breeds--whats wrong with another one?

OT I don't know where your getting your info but from what I have heard the Angus breed was winning the Chicago fat carcass contest year after year in the fifties. I would say they were pretty common before 1955. Regarding continentals, the beef industry has made lots of improvements in carcass quality and in feed efficiency in the last fifty years. Some of that may be due to the influx of higher yielding and faster gaining continentals. I would say there are balancers for example that would put most anything raised in the fifties to shame any way you want to evaluate them. We no longer have to feed them till they are 3.

Well Ollie- those angus might have been in Chicago- but they were few and far between around here...We bought our first angus bull in 55 and he was a true minority for several years- until people started seeing what the baldy calf will do.......And I'm not saying that genetics don't have to keep improving with time- but the continentals thru a lot of variance into the cow herd- which then the domestic breeders tried to keep up with- which now everyone is trying to moderate.. one of the reasons for these composites-to get back to a more consistent product ......There are also cows that will winter in our country on grass and a little cake, while the heavy continental influenced herd beside it needs 40-50 lbs of hay a day to survive.....And it isn't the herefords and angus getting the hay........

 

[ollie]

Hog wash OT. Cows are cows. Semi cows that are frame 5 and bold ribbed will keep easier than flat made 6 frame Angus or Herefords. It is phenotype not breed. BTW Your world in the Hereford business did nothing to moderate the cows through the seventies and eighties. Those Herefords were massive single gutted witches. North of you some are still that way today. Don't talk to me about survivability. It takes deep chested wide based big volumed cows. Any breed.

 

[Oldtimer]

Hog wash OT. Cows are cows. Semi cows that are frame 5 and bold ribbed will keep easier than flat made 6 frame Angus or Herefords. It is phenotype not breed. BTW Your world in the Hereford business did nothing to moderate the cows through the seventies and eighties. Those Herefords were massive single gutted witches. North of you some are still that way today. Don't talk to me about survivability. It takes deep chested wide based big volumed cows. Any breed.

You must not have ever saw the cows of old--I don't think any ever saw 1000 lbs-- And I'll agree that many of the british breeders-Angus and Hereford, went nuts for a period trying to make their cattle into continental size......But you can still find good cattle of both breeds that run in the 1200 lb size....And I'd much rather be sitting in where its warm while those old 1200lb hereford and angus cows drop a black live calf thats up and sucking in a few minutes then to have to spend my calving season out in the cold pulling those big headed, hiplocking composites and balancers... ;-)

 

[ollie]

Hog wash OT. Cows are cows. Semi cows that are frame 5 and bold ribbed will keep easier than flat made 6 frame Angus or Herefords. It is phenotype not breed. BTW Your world in the Hereford business did nothing to moderate the cows through the seventies and eighties. Those Herefords were massive single gutted witches. North of you some are still that way today. Don't talk to me about survivability. It takes deep chested wide based big volumed cows. Any breed.

You must not have ever saw the cows of old--I don't think any ever saw 1000 lbs-- And I'll agree that many of the british breeders-Angus and Hereford, went nuts for a period trying to make their cattle into continental size......But you can still find good cattle of both breeds that run in the 1200 lb size....And I'd much rather be sitting in where its warm while those old 1200lb hereford and angus cows drop a black live calf thats up and sucking in a few minutes then to have to spend my calving season out in the cold pulling those big headed, hiplocking composites and balancers... ;-)

Does the pedigree of Driver ring a bell OT? Surely any Hereford fan like you would recognize the name of a million dollar bull. Ask the users of him how they calved. You need to try to find a different sucker to preach at . I know better.

 

[ollie]

Whch is it OT ? Varied gene pool or predictability?