2 Questions about Mature cow weight

[BRG]

I also posted this same post of Ranchers.net, so no need reading twice unless you want to.

In my travels I see alot of good seedstock cow herds changing direction now that corn is high and they are going for that smaller type cow. Yes alot of cows need to be toned down some in frame and weight. It seems that nearly everyone is always talking about the perfect 1200 lbs efficient cow. That is great but I have 2 questions/comments on the subject.

#1.
How do you get the 1200 lbs cow when nearly the only bred heifers that seem to sell good are weighing 1000 lbs or more. Those 2 don't work together.

#2
I would take a bigger cow anyday if she is long bodied and deep ribbed. It don't take much of a moderate framed, deep sided cow with some length to weigh 1400 lbs plus. I really think we would be going backwords on body shape if we try to get that 1200 lbs cow. It seems like everyone has been working for years to get a cow with some rib shape and some length in body to her that is easy keeping. Why go the other way and breed for shorter bodied, finner made, and not as deep bodied cows? I may be mistaken, but that is about the only weigh to lighten the weight of a cow and to me that is going backwards. Ya, some cows may be taller than others, but like I said, it sure doesn't take much of a moderate framed cow that is deep ribbed, to weigh more than 1200 lbs. The cow in the photo below is an example of what I am talking about. She is moderate framed, and weighs a heck of alot more that 1200 lbs, but to me, her shape is nearly ideal and she is extremely easy keeping, and to me, being easy keeping like she is on grass alone, proves that she is pretty effiecient. So I ask why change the type to get a 1200 lbs cow?

 

[S&S Farms]

I was at an ABS meeting last month and listen to a a Dr Rustin ( ithink) from Nebraska. They are in a three year trial with breedeing heifers as low as 50 percent of mature weight ( I still go for 65 % ) to see if they can end up with smaller cows at maturity and still be reproductively efficient. They also want to see what the daughters will do. They are looking for a cheaper way to get them to their target weight.


The cow in your picture looks like a good cow. Once we have them producing mine never see corn again it ios all grazing and trying to figure how to extend that as long as possible then hay in the dead of winter.

Jeff

 

[lakading]

I would take a bigger cow anyday if she is long bodied and deep ribbed.

Agreed!

It don't take much of a moderate framed, deep sided cow with some length to weigh 1400 lbs plus.

Again, agreed! I'd bet a good number of folks would be surprised if they put what they think are their 1,200 lb cows on a scale.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

In my travels I see alot of good seedstock cow herds changing direction now that corn is high and they are going for that smaller type cow. Yes alot of cows need to be toned down some in frame and weight. It seems that nearly everyone is always talking about the perfect 1200 lbs efficient cow. That is great but I have 2 questions/comments on the subject.

#1.
How do you get the 1200 lbs cow when nearly the only bred heifers that seem to sell good are weighing 1000 lbs or more. Those 2 don't work together.

#2
I would take a bigger cow anyday if she is long bodied and deep ribbed. It don't take much of a moderate framed, deep sided cow with some length to weigh 1400 lbs plus. I really think we would be going backwords on body shape if we try to get that 1200 lbs cow. It seems like everyone has been working for years to get a cow with some rib shape and some length in body to her that is easy keeping. Why go the other way and breed for shorter bodied, finner made, and not as deep bodied cows? I may be mistaken, but that is about the only weigh to lighten the weight of a cow and to me that is going backwards. Ya, some cows may be taller than others, but like I said, it sure doesn't take much of a moderate framed cow that is deep ribbed, to weigh more than 1200 lbs. The cow in the photo below is an example of what I am talking about. She is moderate framed, and weighs a heck of alot more that 1200 lbs, but to me, her shape is nearly ideal and she is extremely easy keeping, and to me, being easy keeping like she is on grass alone, proves that she is pretty effiecient. So I ask why change the type to get a 1200 lbs cow?

i agree, im tonein' my cow size down gradually.. to the 1400 lbs. range which for me is ideal but because most of my older cows are way to big but im talking 7+ frame 1500+ weight simmx

 

[bigbull338]

in my eyes a 1200lb cow is more productive than a 1600lb cow.ann heres why a 1200lb cow that milks well can wean a calf that weighs 500 to 700lbs.an thats 50% to 60% of her bw.an she does it on 30% less grass an feed.an they require more acres pre pair to support a 1600lb cow.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

in my eyes a 1200lb cow is more productive than a 1600lb cow.ann heres why a 1200lb cow that milks well can wean a calf that weighs 500 to 700lbs.an thats 50% to 60% of her bw.an she does it on 30% less grass an feed.an they require more acres pre pair to support a 1600lb cow.

i bet your soggy beefmasters will mature more than 1200lbs

 

[bigbull338]

right now ive got 2 cows that are 1200lbs or under.an 2 that are 1500lbs plus.an so far no matter the cows weight they wean off nice big calves.the 2 1200lb cows weaned off calves at 550 to 600lbs.an a 1500lb cow weaned her calf at 550 or better at 7 months old.an her momma still had plenty milk when i weaned her calf.

 

[dyates]

In my little herd, I have cows ranging anywhere from 1100 lbs. to 1600 lbs. As long as they wean at least 50% of their body weight, I don't care how big they are. I will say that my bigger cows are weaning a lower % of their body weight than the smaller ones. That's just my cows under my management. I'm sure this isn't the case for everyone else. As for me, the big tankers will be the first going to market.

 

[cfpinz]

I don't care much for grouping cattle by weight, there's a lot of difference in 1400lb cows. And I wouldn't exactly call the cow pictured above a "moderate frame", at least not for a red angus.

 

[BRG]

The cow is pretty moderate, to me anyway. She is between a 5 and 6 frame. I call that moderate and less than that small and taller big. But everyone has their own opinion on what "moderate" is.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The cow is pretty moderate, to me anyway. She is between a 5 and 6 frame. I call that moderate and less than that small and taller big. But everyone has their own opinion on what "moderate" is.

moderate should be less than excess.. and every rancher should be aware if they got it. that cow you got pictured looks to be ideal. atleast for me

 

[TB-Herefords]

That is one fat fart knockin cow. Run her in my country and you might get her closer to the 1200 lbs range. :nod:

 

[TB-Herefords]

Is there such a thing as a moderate framed beefmaster or charbray? It seams to me that goes away from the breed characteristics. I seen two ads that advertised moderate framed charbray and beefmaster. Seams to me they are trying to sell a gimic. When I think of a charolais anything I think of adding frame and I havn't seen many beefmasters but I have yet to see a mature cow under 1800lbs not to say there are no 1500lbs beefmasters; just I havn't seen them.

 

[Aaron]

You would have to feed our April and May-born heifers pretty hard and have good pasture to get them to the 1000 lb range by September or October. The majority of ours go out on grass at 650 to 700 lbs, and fall in the 800-900 lbs range by autumn. As a result, we don't breed our heifers their first year and they last longer by doing just that. Slimmed down, but still in very good condition, ours hit the 1150 to 1250 lbs mark mature. Hog fat they hit 1350+ lbs. :cboy:

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Why go the other way and breed for shorter bodied, finner made, and not as deep bodied cows? I may be mistaken, but that is about the only weigh to lighten the weight of a cow and to me that is going backwards.

You are mistaken that the only way to reduce weight overall is by breeding for pencil guts and/or short bodies. You take your pictured 1400 lb cow (nice cow, BTW) and knock a frame size off of her, but not just off the ribs but off the leg too, and you'll be down to a 1200lb cow in no time. Remember, its not the total size of rib that counts, but rather the proportion of rib to leg that truly matters.

Having said that, people get way to hung up on weight alone. A deep, wide 1400 lb cow is going to be more productive than a pencil gutted 1400 lb cow.

Also those thousand pound heifers may end up around that 1200 lb mark, depending on how early maturing they are. Most of my 9 -10 weight heifers around here end up sitting around 12-1300 lbs mature. While there is, of course, some correlation between YW, 2 year weight and mature weight, its not 100% by any stretch of the imagination. Actually, the smaller framed animals often grow very quickly up to that thousand or 1100 lb mark, then slow way back. Don't get me wrong though. If you see thousand pound yearling hiefers, its a pretty safe bet they will end up over 1200 lbs, but its not a sure thing.

Rod

 

[novatech]

in my eyes a 1200lb cow is more productive than a 1600lb cow.ann heres why a 1200lb cow that milks well can wean a calf that weighs 500 to 700lbs.an thats 50% to 60% of her bw.an she does it on 30% less grass an feed.an they require more acres pre pair to support a 1600lb cow.

I would be very interested in how you calculate/know that a 1200 lb. cow will eat 30% less grass than a 1600 lb. cow.
I believe that people take a lot for granted in trying to judge productivity/efficiency by frame size and weight as their only criteria.
There are cattle that can maintain their body condition through out the year, while raising a calf. There are cattle that cannot. This is regardless of frame score. These cattle are the result of genetic selection. I am sure that most would agree on this. Since we know this is true it would seem reasonable to conclude that it would be more advantageous to select cattle on their genetic feed efficient abilities rather than conclude that a 1200 lb. cow would eat less to maintain herself than a 14 or 16 hundred lb. cow.
Having said that if one selected a herd of all the same genetic efficiency makeup then frame size would play a roll in that contemporary herd.

The size of my cattle are based on my market demand, regardless of my personal preference.

 

[smnherf]

There has been a lot of talk about the 1200 lb cow as being optimum. My question is when are you weighing that cow? Is this precalving weight, post calving weight, or is it weight at the time of weaning. It can vary greatly. Also, the Body Condition Score plays a huge role in this also. A 1200 lb BCS of 4 isn't the same as a 1200 lb BCS of 6.5. Also, what is the age of that cow. All cows tend to get heavier with age.

I have to caution against only using cow weight as a selection tool. I have seen herds that have been selecting for cow weight and calf weight as a % of cow weight. In most cases the numbers would have you selecting for thinner, higher milking, frailer made cows.


Brian

 

[dun]

I have to caution against only using cow weight as a selection tool. I have seen herds that have been selecting for cow weight and calf weight as a % of cow weight. In most cases the numbers would have you selecting for thinner, higher milking, frailer made cows.


Brian

OOH, excellent point.

 

[milkmaid]

I was at an ABS meeting last month and listen to a a Dr Rustin ( ithink) from Nebraska. They are in a three year trial with breedeing heifers as low as 50 percent of mature weight ( I still go for 65 % ) to see if they can end up with smaller cows at maturity and still be reproductively efficient. They also want to see what the daughters will do. They are looking for a cheaper way to get them to their target weight.

Interesting study... I'd like to see the final results of it.

At the moment, my personal opinion is that you can't override genetics by breeding earlier/at lighter weights. When a cow has 6 months of the year she's not lactating, she can and will use that time to grow to her full potential, whatever that may be. Every notice the cows that are bred accidently and calve long before they should... still get pretty close in size to the rest of the herd if you give them enough years.

IMO they'd need a 5-10 year study to really know for sure one way or the other.

 

[MikeC]

"Animal Units" converted by using "Metabolic Weights":

http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/dickinso/r ... animal.htm