14 mth. old bull calf nursing two cows ? What to do?

[BARNSCOOP]

I am posting this as and added topic from a previous post. I have a 14 month old bull calf that I purchased at 6 months of age to replace my herdsire for June. When I bought him the cows were pregnant but now that they have calved the two tall Angus cows allow him to nurse them. I have had to separate them but I will have to put him back in with them in June if he passes his BSE. Has anyone had this happen before and is their a chance he will stop or always do this? Do they make a nose piece big enough for a calf this age? and could he use an automatic waterer with one in place?

 

[TheBullLady]

If the cows keep letting him nurse, he won't stop. And yes, you can buy the "weaners" to put into his nose. It's been years since we used one, but the one we used was metal. It doesn't affect the animal eating or drinking.

 

[Oldtimer]

If the cows keep letting him nurse, he won't stop. And yes, you can buy the "weaners" to put into his nose. It's been years since we used one, but the one we used was metal. It doesn't affect the animal eating or drinking.

Yep-- we used to make them using a "tin can"...Cut it open- and shape the tin so it fits down over his nose area- and fasten it to the bull with some number 9 wire stuck thru his nose just like you do with a ring...
Put a few holes in it with a can opener- so the point points in toward his nose- and if he tries to suck it sticks him...Usually a summer of wearing that will make him decide he doesn't like milk....

 

[Bez+]

Personally I would get rid of the bull - he could very well do this for the rest of his life and that makes him a piece of schitte.

Watched a 6 year old bull sneak a suck once - sold him to the local buyer a couple days later. I wondered how often he had been doing this at the expense of the calves.

Once those cows stop letting him suck their tits dry, he will simply wait and search around again on others until he finds one that will let him latch on.

You planning on keeping that thing on his nose forever?

Sooner or later that so-called "stop sucking" will come off - or you will remove it and it does not always work.

You got a problem and a nose piece on an animal this old does not always work - in fact I would bet it works less than 50% of the time.

I do like wiring it to his nose though - that little dick head would get at least three to four wraps through his nose from me if I owned him.

Seems to me you place a lot of faith in this animal and so far he has done nothing to earn it - but he does have you worried.

Do not keep trouble on the place - no matter how much you might love him.

Bez+

 

[mnmtranching]

If I had a 14 month old bull nursing cows with baby calves. Simple, HE'S OUT OF HERE.

Why in the world mess with it. :shock:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Failed BSE sucks the cows not on my place.

 

[BARNSCOOP]

Well,
I hear you guys. I know what I will have to do, It just stinks. I looked hard for this bull calf. He had the pedigree and EPD's I was looking for and now this has to happen.I have put all my eggs in his basket and now even if he passes his second BSE I still really can't keep him because he steals milk. I have had the worst luck with bulls the last two years. I have separated him from the cows so he is not taking milk now. But, in June after his BSE if he passes I will have to use him if I can't find a bull. June is the latest I can hold out to breed my cows. Thanks everyone and if anyone has had a bull straighten up after seeing something like this....let me know.

Sonya

 

[dun]

If you're really hot on this particulr bull, after he passes his BSE you might want to have him collected so at least you will still have him available.

 

[Bez+]

Well,
I hear you guys. I know what I will have to do, It just stinks. I looked hard for this bull calf. He had the pedigree and EPD's I was looking for and now this has to happen.I have put all my eggs in his basket and now even if he passes his second BSE I still really can't keep him because he steals milk. I have had the worst luck with bulls the last two years. I have separated him from the cows so he is not taking milk now. But, in June after his BSE if he passes I will have to use him if I can't find a bull. June is the latest I can hold out to breed my cows. Thanks everyone and if anyone has had a bull straighten up after seeing something like this....let me know.

Sonya

After reading your posts I can tell you that your breeder is no friend and he is a big a part of the problem.

Probably less than 10% of bull calves deserve to be kept as bulls. Anyone who keeps them all whole and sells them as bulls is preying on those who do not know, reducing the reputation of the breed and certainly diluting the capability of the breed.

While a bit off topic - As far as I am concerned there is not much difference in heifers either - keeping them back for breeding is good - but only if they are decent breeders - most should be shipped for beef.

You now know that just because an animal has the "numbers" and a pedigree - he is not always a breeder - in fact most of the time he is not. You will see it here a lot and you will see this exclamation from many "But he is a registered bull!". Registration and pedigree mean squat at times.

I have seen absolutely stellar herds of cattle that do not have one registered animal in them.

Folks get so tied up in this "pure bred / registered" bull crap they sometimes lose sight of what matters - a herd of cattle that are sound in body and foot, breed back first time around, calve unassisted, do not need food supplements at any stage of development, have excellent dispositions and make you money!

Instead they produce terrible looking and poor performing cattle - all in the name of a pedigree.

You might stop buying bull calves and try buying a two year old - the extra expense might actually be a money saver in the long run - and do not take delivery until vet checked. Better, have someone who really does know cattle help you out. As you have already learned - finding this person this is not easy either - so time for you to do your homework.

Lots of folks out there want your money and will sell you anything.

Good luck

Bez+

 

[cfpinz]

There are bull sales everywhere you turn around this time of year. Your current "bull" will make a nice dent in the price of a developed yearling with a guarantee.

 

[dun]

Probably less than 10% of bull calves deserve to be kept as bulls. Anyone who keeps them all whole and sells them as bulls is preying on those who do not know, reducing the reputation of the breed and certainly diluting the capability of the breed.

Sadly there are way too many of those that keep every bull and sell them as breeders. I also couldn;t agree more about heifers, at most 50% are ones that should be kept as breeders.

 

[Jovid]

I know where you can find a 15 month old bull that has passed his BSE

 

[BARNSCOOP]

The bull with the problem this time was purchased on a different farm than my last and is a totally different breed. I have contacted the breeder and if he fails his BSE text time they are willing to give me the bull calf of my choice or my money back. The bull before this one I bought last May and he was a two year old who did preform well as everyone was bred ,however when he was sold to me the breeder was showing me his sires EPD's and not his EPD's and after the purchase and the paper's came back I had a bull totally wrong for my operation. ALL my calves are terminal and sold at 14-16 months old to individual's for meat and he had great calving ease and high milk but very low WW & YW. So, I ate him....well a few others did too. I have been able to secure a friends proven Murray Gray bull for this years crop as I did not want to put my bull back in with nursing cows. I guess I will pay for the second BSE and if he fails pick a new bull calf. If he passes I will eat him. I can't sell him in good faith to someone who will have the same problem as I.

Thank you again everyone and again I would love to know if anyone has had this problem with bulls or heifers.
Sonya

 

[Aero]

i just ordered this for a 20 month old bull i am using. if this doesnt work, he will take a ride.

i saw him steal a little last year but didnt see much of it. now he is back at it and my patience have worn thin.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... b0d0204ae5

 

[BARNSCOOP]

Aero,
I looked at the link..that is interesting. We have ALL automatic waters that have a ball in the tank the cattle have to push down to drink water. I was told nose pieces will not allow them to be able to push the ball down to drink or it can be torn off at the waterer giving it a good try. Let me know how this nose piece works out. Thanks

 

[Bez+]

i just ordered this for a 20 month old bull i am using. if this doesnt work, he will take a ride.

i saw him steal a little last year but didnt see much of it. now he is back at it and my patience have worn thin.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... b0d0204ae5

Problem is - how much did he steal when you were not looking?

Hope it works but I have to say the odds are against you. If you really want to give it a try, put a couple of wraps of wire through his nose and around this thing - otherwise he will stand a good chance of rubbing it off.

Might make him even sneakier and then he becomes a night thief once you take it off.

Good luck my friend

Bez+

 

[never2old2learn-ron]

If you plan on just keeping him for 1 season, then I would put a nose piece on him, and at the end of breeding season, ship him or eat him. We did that 2 years ago. We put a ring in him and fashioned half a license plate for a nose piece. It didn't stop him from eating or drinking from the water tank. But it did stop him from sucking. After breeding season, we had him slaughtered. Good eating and we got some nice calves out of him. Just another opinion. Ron

 

[Bez+]

If you plan on just keeping him for 1 season, then I would put a nose piece on him, and at the end of breeding season, ship him or eat him. We did that 2 years ago. We put a ring in him and fashioned half a license plate for a nose piece. It didn't stop him from eating or drinking from the water tank. But it did stop him from sucking. After breeding season, we had him slaughtered. Good eating and we got some nice calves out of him. Just another opinion. Ron

Proof here that you can eat a bull - another common question answered - and I hope I did not hijack the thread.

Cheers

Bez+

 

[Aero]

i figure that the risk:reward ratio is pretty low. the thing costs me $15 total with shipping. I give it a 50% chance of working and i dont have any bulls ready to just step in for him but should by next year. i have no problem eating him, it's just worth a try and my expectations are pretty low.

 

[BARNSCOOP]

Ron,

When you say thay your old bull could eat and drink at the water tank. Did you have automatic waters with balls to push down?