$100,000.00 cow

[racekannon]

In the purebred industry if a sale manager is worth his commision he knows what " Make her/him famous " means. SOP

 

[Limomike]

ditto that Alabama....

 

[Anonymous]

I think it is point less, what if you go and spend $100,000 on a first calf heifer and then she dies while at birth or something. you are pretty much screwed. i would imagine it would teach you not to spend $100,000. the most i have spent on a cow was 20,000 And i have made about 200,00 off all 13 of her calves

 

[oakcreekfarms]

Most of that money never trades hands. It's all about credits, and making big breeders look good.

 

[Jogeephus]

Most of that money never trades hands. It's all about credits, and making big breeders look good.

......and nieve cattlemen in feeling good about the overpriced cattle they bought from them.

 

[rm987]

i would like to see some pics of these higgh end cows

 

[New-bee]

Well, I may be a new-bee to this business, but $100,000 is quite reasonable considering the return. You can make fun if you want, and you can joke about the "club" if you want, but if you would take the time to use the Angus data base and google to look at who is buying these elite cows and bulls, you would discover that it is knowledgeable operators who are trying to improve their herds to make a buck, and that brings with it some "seed stock" operators who invest money to buy elite cows to create embryos which bring top dollar because of the genetics of the off-spring to be produced. Wehrman's got a steal when they bought 2536 for $255,000. Apparently, they have bred her to the top bulls in the country, doing their own in-herd et's in order to get perhaps 10 off-spring from each flush. Then by selling the bulls, and a few of the super cows for top dollar they have made a killing - many times their initial investment. The circulating money between club members is a myth. I recently talked to an individual who was at the sale where 2536 was purchased. After looking at her, he realized she was so good, $B=62+, that she would go for top dollar, and he phoned his boss to get permission to bid. He was allowed to bid $100,000, but when his boss phoned back to see how well thy had done, he was embarrassed to tell his boss that he hadn't even gotten to bid. But this operation has kept in touch, and this year, they bought a "super" bull from 2536 with $B=62+ for a mere $60,000, and this bull is already at work on their heifers. But can you imagine how much Wherman's is making if they are selling their animals for that kind of money. Go to the sale book for their October 2006 sale and look at the prices and who bought. 101 animals sold for an average of $20,000+. There is no club big enough to operate as a money circulating system as some of you seem to want to think. When you wake up, you will understand that you have been left in the dust. The industry averages are now poised to increase dramatically as the offspring from this one elite cow create a generational improvement in herd quality. We intend to try to join the club, but we intend to do so by breeding with bulls from 2536 to our pretty good foundation cows with a target to have all offspring $B=50+ within two breeding cycles. As a small operation, we understand that every opportunity to sell is important whether it be semen, embryo's or quality offspring. Unfortunately, most breeders & growers here in Utah do not spend the money to do ultrasound testing on their offspring, and thus simply cannot understand what they need to do or exactly how good (or bad) their offspring are. Life works such that you can join the fun, or you can just relax and poke fun. But the idea that there is some huge club of ultra rich individuals who buy and sell each others cows and bulls is just so much BULL! You don't have to buy any of these animals to grow your own. Just know your herd, and then select the best bulls to "grow the numbers" while obtaining the type of carcus you are seeking. Keep track and contact the purchasers of these magic bulls - they will sell you some semen as they are just like you and I, they need to make sales to make a profit. Good luck. New-bee

 

[Frankie]

Oh, my.

 

[New-bee]

Not oh my , but oh my !!! Just think, if you have a great favorite cow who is docile and a pet, who has a good look, gives good calves, is maternal, and an easy calfer, but who has poor beef values, say 28, then today's technology allows you to AI her to GAR Predestined with a beef value of 62, and you can expect an offspring who will be just as great as the earlier ones, except their beef value can be expected to be around 45 unless you get a genetic enhancement like happened to get cow 2536 - and then as a heifer, you can cross her to GAR Solution and get an offspring with a $B equal to around 53. That's what these expensive animals are all about, increasing herd quality in just two generations. !!! New-bee

 

[ollie']

Not oh my , but oh my !!! Just think, if you have a great favorite cow who is docile and a pet, who has a good look, gives good calves, is maternal, and an easy calfer, but who has poor beef values, say 28, then today's technology allows you to AI her to GAR Predestined with a beef value of 62, and you can expect an offspring who will be just as great as the earlier ones, except their beef value can be expected to be around 45 unless you get a genetic enhancement like happened to get cow 2536 - and then as a heifer, you can cross her to GAR Solution and get an offspring with a $B equal to around 53. That's what these expensive animals are all about, increasing herd quality in just two generations. !!! New-bee

Pilgram, you better hope that squanto helps you make it through the winter. :lol:

 

[jscunn]

New Bee,

I am not trying to rain on your parade, but... how many Predestined calves will be born this year in the US?? Hundreds, no, more like thousands. What makes yours better than mine, Frankie's, etc.. A couple of things, First and most important the dam, second the program that you have developed to produce seedstock.

Here is another way of looking at it. You or I could go out and purchase a group of donors @ $100,000 each for 10 of them, and probably get some but not all of our money back. If you dont believe me call and ask the owners of Sterling Hunter in Michigan and Mountain Meadow in Colorado.....ooops they are out of business.

The way you see it is that Gardiners, Weherman (sp?), Sitz, etc dont swap money so somebody is making it in this business, right? Well those outfits have been in business for 30- 100 years and have designed a breeding plan. Mark Gardiner has not followed each fad, he bred cattle his way and the fad came to him, now eventually the fad crowd will leave his kind of cattle but I bet he doesnt change, his sale average will go down but his core of customers will not leave him.

We would all love to buy our cattle out of the show barn, not the pens in the back. But the cattle in the back pens you can actually make a profit on, my pencil is not sharp enough to make a profit on a $100,000 dollar model.

 

[easy]

I don't recall what Richard paid for 2536 but it wasn't $255,000. You might have an extra zero on there. Good luck with your plan. Please update us from time to time.

 

[vs_cattle]

I Think If You Buy A Cow For 100,000 You Can Make The Money Back In Her Lifetime Another Thing Is Most Of These Top Sellers Are Bought With Other Breeders So You Dond Get Hit With The 100,000 But 34,000 + all the advertising you get for buying a cow for 100,000

Buy Her At 2 Yrs Old
3 Yrs Live Calf 8,000 HFR 12,000 Bull 8 + Embryos At 650 5,200
4 Yr Live Calf 8000-15000 8 Embryos 5500+-
5 Yr Live Calf 8000-15000 8 Embryos 5500+-
6 Yr Live Calf 8000-15000 8 + Embryos 5500+-
7 Yr Live Calf 8000-15000 8 + Embryos 5500+-
8 Yr Live Calf 8000-15000 8 + Embryos 5500+-
9 Yr Live Calf 8000-15000 8 + Embryos 5500+-
10 Yr Live Calf 10000-20000 8 + Embryos 6500+-
11 Yr Live Calf 1500-25000 8 + Embryos 6500+-
12 Yr Live Calf 15000-25,000 8 + Embryos 6500+-
13 Sell Live Calf 15,000 Sell Cow 45,000 +
Total Earnings 173,000 + + + +

 

[Frankie]

Where are you going to sell the embryos, bulls, heifers, for those prices?

 

[SEC]

i would like to see some pics of these higgh end cows

 

[BRG]

 

[MikeC]

 

[lawman]

When this discussion first began under this string, I made some pretty strong statements expressing my concerns about the people who get hurt in the high end purebred business by thinking they can get the same money for their cattle as some of these high end "club" operations or especially the established powerhouse herds. The confidence expressed by New-bee is admirable, but he appears to me to be a prime example of what I was talking about. I have been in the cattle business and have advised others in business ventures for 40 years. Any time the price of a product (whether it is land, corn, cattle, collectible cars, internet stocks, etc.) exceeds its actual value (based on cash flow or real values), that price is speculative. In the speculation game a few people do win very big, and several who get in and out while the false market is chugging along can also do very well, but eventually a lot of people WILL lose money. As one example. Is there any question that any steer calf is really worth feeder calf prices, period? However, tens of thousands of show steers are sold nationally every year for over $2,500 apiece. The buyers who are paying prices that are two to fifty times feeder calf prices just to "win" have created a "false market" for those who raise and sell show steer calves. So long as the numbers of people willing and able to pay these false market prices stays pretty consistent, the show steer producers make good money, and they can justify paying significantly more for cows and bulls to produce those high end show steers. However, if the economy takes a dive and that false market for show steer drops to an average of $1,250 a steer, the guys who are stuck at that point with a cow herd containing too high a percentage of high-priced cows which were supposed to pay for themselves by producing $2,500 steers for the next several years, are flat going to go broke.

Substitute any product or commodity in place of steers in this example and the message is the same. A false market in high end Angus females was created in the 70's by depreciation tax rules which enticed high dollar investors to pay stupid prices for each other's cattle primarily to create a high tax basis to depreciate. That false market went away overnight when the IRS eliminated that tax shelter, and the dozens of investor driven herds paying those high prices disappeared. The investors could absorb the loss, as they had received the offsetting benefit of the tax rules for the previous years, and they knew the risk when they bought in. The people who were hurt were the innocent or unaware cattle producers who got caught up in that false market pricing and ended up overpaying for their cows based on that false market.

The established powerhouse herds love selling more of their top end animals for six figures as a bonus while times are good, and during those times some of them will pay big money for cows from other producers to do a little speculating on their own. However, they know what they are doing, and they don't forget that what supports them long term are the bulls they sell to the people who raise feeder cattle at prices which are based on the "real" market. If New-bee is a speculator who knows what he is doing, then more power to him. However, if he does not realize that this is a speculative market, here's hoping that he and those like him do not end up as victims instead.

 

[alabama]

If I bought a cow for $100,000. And brought her back to my farm she would be worth about $1500.

 

[New-bee]

Wow, I didn't think I would cause so much fuss. I guess from the negative responses that some responders aren't interested in increasing the $F & $B values of their herds in a rapid manner. Perhaps they missed my point. You don't have to spend the high dollar amount, but if your operation is large enough or narrow enough, then it may in fact pay out to purchase that special bull or cow.

There are many many bulls with great numbers that are available because someone bred them and they eventually found their way to the AI market. And many were purchased for high $$$. And the same goes for the great cows like 2536 and related sisters etc. But as a small operator, I have the luck of being able to do sophisticated bull searches thanks to the Angus data base and Google. And now I can seek to take advantage for small cost of these really great bulls to help us increase our herd quality and value. And if we are fortunate enough to hit an animal where the genetic enhancement seen in many of the pedigrees of these special ($B greater than 50) cows or bulls takes place (Ref to Bon View Spectrum 1171 $B=41.57 whose sire was $B=6.54 and Dam was $B=24.05 and many others - then ask if this bull wasn't special enough to warrant a high price/value since he represented a quantum jump in quality for his breeding line?), then we will be able to enjoy a profit a little earlier than otherwise. In any event we will benefit from an enhancement of our herd anyway, and much faster than we could be just sitting back and ignoring these special "high end" cows and bulls. The purchasers must think they are worth the money, so why seek to put these far sighted breeders or even speculators down, when in fact they do a valuable service to the industry? This year (our first year in operation) we plan to AI/Flush and AI using some of the top bulls in the breed (Predestined, 2V1, 4L60, 5M42, and another yet to be selected) with the hope of pushing the majority of our calves into the $B=50+ range. We have studied the model being used by Hinkes, and like what we see as far as quality offspring goes, and may even go to their upcoming Spring sale to see the results and talk to the breeders and buyers.

We appreciate the opportunity provided to us by those with the cash and foresight to purchase and market these unique animals. We won't be purchasing any ET's, but we do intend to do five of our own Et's with our limited herd in order to create multiple offspring so that we can keep a few while we sell the rest. We will be using our few high 30's to mid 40's heifers/cows with these great bulls - which should as a minimum obtain an average $B increase. In that way we won't be having to sell the farm by selling our unique offspring just to sustain the operation, we can keep a few and sell the others. And I still say that when a breeder sells 101 animals for an average price of $20,000+, there is no way that these sales are to some "Club" members whom will be repaid. In fact, there are many many operations who invest in these higher end animals in order to help their operations while making additional cash from semen or embryo sales. In this business it appears that to be successful, you have to work every possible angle, and we plan to do just that. :roll: New-bee