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john250":2ykgwpte said:
Jogeephus":2ykgwpte said:
Pretty sure vegans dream about bacon.
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Vegans dream about getting on TV to talk about how virtuous they are.
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Ever play Veganopoly? Its where you get in a room with a bunch of folks with one vegan and take bets on how long it will be before they let everyone know they are vegan.
 
1wlimo":7v9wozin said:
This is the problem, compare the average omnivore with a health conscious person they will not live as long, weather that health conscious person eats meat or not. The studies do not look at this, they just lump the general population against the health conscious vegan. Not really looking at meat as opposed to exercise and obesity etc.
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I think you're likely generally right--that your average vegan is more health-conscious generally than your average omnivore. BUT I met a family a couple years ago that are all strict vegans (both parents and their young children). They are all quite obese, even the child who is about 5!!! A family member was vegetarian for a few years; she lived on pecan twirls and kept fainting. Dr. said she needed protein. So she happily went back to steak, rare.
 
boondocks":q652gxeg said:
R V":q652gxeg said:
Institutionally elite vegan extremism in the 70's-80's pushed low fat diets "with facts" that retrospectively were lies and studies designed for a particular outcome (goal of decreasing/eliminating meat intake) and not based on true outcomes. Sort of like the Kellogg cereal company study that showed that eggs were bad for you. Isn't it interesting that the only person living from the 1800's (Italy) eats 2 eggs for breakfast every day. She was still independent and living in her own apartment when she turned 117 years old. I think she still is, but I haven't seen any recent articles on her.

Instead of improving health and lifespan, low fat diets have expedited the opposite extreme to such and extent that even the government under a liberal denounced low fat diets. I give the Obama administration their due on this and was/am impressed. In addition to the obesity epidemic, I think the current epidemic of dementia in young thin "healthy appearing" women probably helped expedite this. I have a patient who is not quite 50 and low risk who has severe dementia and can't find her way home nor recognize her children part of the time. It appears dairy fats, yes animal fats, significantly decrease this risk. (Several fresh fruits and vegetables and physical exercise also appear important in prevention- no surprise with these though.) Sadly and unfortunately, the latest data I read had vegetarians dying earlier than omnivores. This is a first as far as I know. I have my theories on this, but that is all they are and not worth delineating.

In regards to our cattle economics and business, only time will tell how much impact these latest attempts will have. Hopefully, not much!
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I don't recall that the low-fat craze was pushed by vegans--more like food conglomerates that wished us to buy higher sugar lower fat cookies (Snackwells anyone?). At any rate I am curious about the data on lifespan. If in fact there is credible objective evidence of meateaters living longer (and healthier) can you share? It would be great to have in hand for when vegan/vegetarians give me the side eye! A quick search found this as the first "legit" source I saw (and it doesn't say meateaters live longer or better): http://time.com/9463/7-reasons-vegetarians-live-longer/
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Boondocks,

Good thoughts and correct - my experiences in training involved a few very intelligent extremists and probably biased my opinions. Thanks for bringing some balance to that. Unfortunately, I can no longer find the article on shifting life spans of vegans and vegetarians which is very frustrating - sorry. I should have saved it. The data analysis appeared sound, but I only read through it once. I do feel vegetables, fruits, nuts are part of a "healthy diet," so don't think I am against them. The paper "Omnivore vs Vegan Who is Right" is a balanced perspective and I feel accurate. In the past, vegans and vegetarians may have suffered shorter life spans due to Carnitine, Carnosine, and Vitamin B12 deficiencies, but these are fairly easy to correct. Due to the current sources and marketing, I think the quality of most available vegetables and fruits are questionable - picked unripe, chemically treated, etc. At a minimum, fruits and vegetables grown locally (On your land, farmer's markets, orchards, etc.) are more tasty and help your/local economy.

The data regarding the healthiness of low fat diet was scewed which fortunately is being corrected. This was used to create a fear of animal fats (and pushed us towards a carb heavy diet). This was the basis for the marketing and just enough "Science" to make it seem credible. This is my frustration. It is very hard to "unlearn" such information.

I don't think I ever said "that meateaters live better." :cowboy: I will be more diligent to save references. Again, I do apologize for not saving this one.

Ron
 
if the animals we eat are vegetarians wouldn't that qualify as long you the meat your eating identifies and a vegan ??? They say you are what you eat. and if a cow is vegan ...........................................................
 
True Grit Farms":97o8ltcz said:
HDRider":97o8ltcz said:
Bright Raven":97o8ltcz said:
A yawn. Nothing New! Concept has been around since Hector was a pup.
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keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it
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That didn't work out so good for hillary.
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For every rule is an exception. In that case, an exceptionally wonderful exception.
 
greybeard":2m0qga3c said:
I know one thing..I already outlived Euell Gibbons..
Stalking+the+Wild.jpg
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wasn't that the spokesman for"grapenuts" cereal? I never liked that stuff. Makes me remember the commercial "where's the beef?"
 
reeler":bh33ozia said:
greybeard":bh33ozia said:
I know one thing..I already outlived Euell Gibbons..
Stalking+the+Wild.jpg
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wasn't that the spokesman for"grapenuts" cereal? I never liked that stuff. Makes me remember the commercial "where's the beef?"
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I was thinking it was Fruit Loops but you are probably right. I can't remember shyt anymore because I drank water from a garden hose as a child.
 
Jogeephus":2wpsgc97 said:
reeler":2wpsgc97 said:
greybeard":2wpsgc97 said:
I know one thing..I already outlived Euell Gibbons..
Stalking+the+Wild.jpg
Click to expand...
wasn't that the spokesman for"grapenuts" cereal? I never liked that stuff. Makes me remember the commercial "where's the beef?"
Click to expand...

I was thinking it was Fruit Loops but you are probably right. I can't remember shyt anymore because I drank water from a garden hose as a child.
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They (grapenuts) were supposed to taste like ''wild hickory nuts''! :nod:
 

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