Jim Lents

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of your favorite breed.

elkwc
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby elkwc » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:36 pm

I've seen this video before. Saw another video by a different person and never saw an udder like the one pictured in this video. All were much better.. I've seen some say also talked to some that have visited Lents herd and they have stated overall the udders & teats are better than what is shown in this video. Makes me wonder if this person has an agenda. It appears he shows the same udder most of the time. He doesn't show the udders of many cows. Again I doubt if this cow is a true representation of Lents herd. I'm not a Lents fan and likely will never use any of his cattle but udder and teats issues isn't why I won't use them.
Last edited by elkwc on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Stocker Steve » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:21 pm

Nesikep wrote: I looked at my current cull list - 70% for age, 20% for udder, 10% for feet. So I need to focus on finding bulls with better teeth!

you mean 70% for teeth? At what age does this start to show up for you?[/quote]

I wean at 10 months unless there is a forage problem. So 70% of my pre selected 2017 culls for not being able to hold enough condition while rising a respectable calf. They look old and run down. Longevity seems to be somewhat breed based. I have a few SM teenage Herefords and wf that still hold condition, but angus usually fade fast after about 10 years old, and some heavy milking crosses have issues after about 7 years old.
So which is more profitable - - the cow that raises six 650# calves, or the cow that raises ten 500# calves?
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby WalnutCrest » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:33 pm

Stocker Steve wrote:
Nesikep wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:I looked at my current cull list - 70% for age, 20% for udder, 10% for feet. So I need to focus on finding bulls with better teeth!

you mean 70% for teeth? At what age does this start to show up for you?


I wean at 10 months unless there is a forage problem. So 70% of my pre selected 2017 culls for not being able to hold enough condition while rising a respectable calf. They look old and run down. Longevity seems to be somewhat breed based. I have a few SM teenage Herefords and wf that still hold condition, but angus usually fade fast after about 10 years old, and some heavy milking crosses have issues after about 7 years old.
So which is more profitable - - the cow that raises six 650# calves, or the cow that raises ten 500# calves?


Depends. Are any of the calves black?

:hide:
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Hollis » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:09 pm

WalnutCrest wrote:
Stocker Steve wrote:
Nesikep wrote:
you mean 70% for teeth? At what age does this start to show up for you?


I wean at 10 months unless there is a forage problem. So 70% of my pre selected 2017 culls for not being able to hold enough condition while rising a respectable calf. They look old and run down. Longevity seems to be somewhat breed based. I have a few SM teenage Herefords and wf that still hold condition, but angus usually fade fast after about 10 years old, and some heavy milking crosses have issues after about 7 years old.
So which is more profitable - - the cow that raises six 650# calves, or the cow that raises ten 500# calves?


Depends. Are any of the calves black?

:hide:


I would say marketing would have more to do with black, red, or white.
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby ANAZAZI » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:20 am

elkwc wrote:I've seen this video before. Saw another video by a different person and never saw an udder like the one pictured in this video. All were much better.. I've seen some say also talked to some that have visited Lents herd and they have stated overall the udders & teats are better than what is shown in this video. Makes me wonder if this person has an agenda. It appears he shows the same udder most of the time. He doesn't show the udders of many cows. Again I doubt if this cow is a true representation of Lents herd. I'm not a Lents fan and likely will never use any of his cattle but udder and teats issues isn't why I won't use them.


Exactly my thoughts. The video is horrible; in the title the words "basics of linebreeding" appear, the book is called 'the Basis of Linebreeding, then the spell 'linebred' like "line bread", the credibility of the videomaker is gone there already. Playing the footage at the wrong speed is another no-no, we get to see the same few udders many times, only filming old cows and so on. Poor work indeed.
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Dogs and Cows » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:18 am

Son of Butch wrote:Form follows function.
It's not until a man comes along and decides to improve on nature that real problems result.

In example:
I decide my cows should produce more milk.
Therefore I select more for Dairy character in my Beef cows. It works, resulting in increased milk production, but also creates multiple new problems. Such as udder problems, 'hard doing' cows, a need for more feed and reproductive problems. Giving me new problems to occupy my time and 'correct' which creates more unforeseen consequences.
Around and around the cycle goes. Perhaps the real problem is man's pride and the idea that he can improve upon
God's creation and God's law of natural selection of form following function.


This I agree with totally...could not have said better myself!!!

Tim
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Lazy M » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:53 am

KNERSIE wrote:
Hollis wrote:All u guys bashing udders need to understand there is a difference between functional and desirable.

I ask this question.
If those cows produce to 10 yr old without help and wean a good calf is it a problem? Or just eyesore for u.


Exactly!

It's beef cows, as long as they have an udder that I don't need to bother with for it to do its job for the cow's entire productive life, its good enough. Fix the more important stuff before you satisfy your udder fetish

Knersie: you just told me in another thread that my new Hereford bull shouldn't have been marketed because his eyelashes slant upward too much, and now you're giving these horribly uddered cows a pass? WTH? Take the blinders off..
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby KNERSIE » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:44 am

Go back and read all my posts on this thread in context.
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Lazy M » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:28 am

KNERSIE wrote:Go back and read all my posts on this thread in context.

:lol:
I did and don't disagree that poor, but functional, udders can be ignored for strictly commercial operations, but it appears that these cattle are being used to represent a model herd. Are they seedstock producers? Total BS, and your credibility is flushed down the toilet if you are making excuses for their obvious flaws..
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Hollis » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:36 am

Lazy M wrote:
KNERSIE wrote:Go back and read all my posts on this thread in context.

:lol:
I did and don't disagree that poor, but functional, udders can be ignored for strictly commercial operations, but it appears that these cattle are being used to represent a model herd. Are they seedstock producers? Total BS, and your credibility is flushed down the toilet if you are making excuses for their obvious flaws..


U probably should go visit the herd before u starting accusation's . I very tight line bred herd and I highly doubt that those are the norm. I agree selection pressure should be used to rid the problem. But functionality trumps / beauty in this case.

All yours beautiful? Highly doubt it
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Lazy M » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:03 am

Hollis wrote:
Lazy M wrote:
KNERSIE wrote:Go back and read all my posts on this thread in context.

:lol:
I did and don't disagree that poor, but functional, udders can be ignored for strictly commercial operations, but it appears that these cattle are being used to represent a model herd. Are they seedstock producers? Total BS, and your credibility is flushed down the toilet if you are making excuses for their obvious flaws..


U probably should go visit the herd before u starting accusation's . I very tight line bred herd and I highly doubt that those are the norm. I agree selection pressure should be used to rid the problem. But functionality trumps / beauty in this case.

All yours beautiful? Highly doubt it

Go back and read all my posts on this thread in context.
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Re: Jim Lents

Postby Nesikep » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:01 pm

Yes, I agree that the video is suspect, and I noticed the misspellings, etc as well... and not a whole lot of cows were shown.
I would just expect that after 100 years of breeding, you'd have gotten past just selecting the barebones functional traits and make steps toward improving the looks as well. If the herd is indeed as linebred as it sound like, I would expect all the cows to be very similar to what was shown.
I have lots of cows I'm not proud of, and some downright ugly ones, but I'm not at the point where I can cull everything I don't like... I'm on my 25th calving season, I expect it to be at least another 15 before I can really show the entire herd and not have to hide a bunch of them
Here's one of my uglies.. she's going on the trailer in a month https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mhECCMxi1w
Her daughters are really good and actually have great udders with much better temperaments than that old witch.

This one seems more proud of her udder than I am
Image
Her daughter is about to calve, she's looking like she'll be much better
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