got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

The place to start if you are new!
User avatar
Rafter S
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2812
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:13 am
Location: Grimes County, TX

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby Rafter S » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:55 am

greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.


I certainly can't speak for him, but I assumed he thought the calf should be cut because he may be more likely to pass along a tendency for having twins. Did you see that in the one you kept?
"I spent half my money on wine, women, and song.....and like a fool I squandered the rest." - Benny Hill

User avatar
Red Bull Breeder
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6977
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:26 am
Location: North Arkansas

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby Red Bull Breeder » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:17 am

So the you expected a 10 month old bottle calf bull to breed your heifer. Was the heifer also a bottle calf? How about a picture of the bottle baby bull you have. They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

User avatar
jkwilson
GURU
GURU
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Southern Indiana

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby jkwilson » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:53 am

Bought a registered bull at 14 months once. He was tested by a known vet right before we bought him and was great. Ran him with a group of 11 cows at a rented place for three months. The guy we bought him from drove by and observed a cow in heat and called us. He was concerned and a few days later had the bull retested at his expense. Came up clear.

He loaned us another bull to try to get everything covered and took the original bull home. When we preg checked, 9 cows had been covered by the original bull for sure, and by actual calving date it seems the tenth was too.

Kicker is that about a month later he had the bull checked again and he was in good shape again. Vet speculated that it was the bulls response to the Electrojac during the second test. Said he seemed more "stressed" by it than most bulls are.

User avatar
greatgerts
Rancher
Rancher
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:25 pm
Location: De Soto MO
Contact:

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby greatgerts » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:35 am

Rafter S wrote:
greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.


I certainly can't speak for him, but I assumed he thought the calf should be cut because he may be more likely to pass along a tendency for having twins. Did you see that in the one you kept?


Out of all of his calves, we only had one set of twins that he sired.

User avatar
kenny thomas
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6509
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:16 pm
Location: SW tip of Virginia

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby kenny thomas » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:22 pm

greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.

http://articles.extension.org/pages/393 ... eproducing
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT 2009
I was born lazy, but too broke to be lazy. Red Bull Breeder

User avatar
Son of Butch
GURU
GURU
Posts: 2218
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:44 pm
Location: Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby Son of Butch » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:36 pm

Interesting that male twin to female often has decreased fertility...
I did not realize that, only thought the female (free martin) was affected, but I never used a bull born twin to a heifer.

User avatar
greybeard
Mentor
Mentor
Posts: 12548
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:51 pm
Location: Cleveland Tx

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby greybeard » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:14 pm

Son of Butch wrote:Interesting that male twin to female often has decreased fertility...
I did not realize that, only thought the female (free martin) was affected, but I never used a bull born twin to a heifer.

Same here-I learn something new every day.
"For evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing" Burke
"The hottest places in Hades are for those who in time of great moral crises remain neutral" Dante

User avatar
kenny thomas
GURU
GURU
Posts: 6509
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:16 pm
Location: SW tip of Virginia

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby kenny thomas » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:15 pm

I can't say it's a bad thing but just never took the chance.
My thoughts only, don't bet the farm on them. KT 2009
I was born lazy, but too broke to be lazy. Red Bull Breeder

WRFarms
Beginner
Beginner
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:19 pm

Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby WRFarms » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:06 pm

kenny thomas wrote:
greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.

http://articles.extension.org/pages/393 ... eproducing


The likeliness of reduced fertility of a male twin born co-twin to a heifer is a subject that still needs more investigation. There have been several small studies done over the last few decades and they've been largely inconclusive. Results range from a 58% reduction in fertility, to no discernible loss of fertility. Reduced scrotal circumference has been observed in one study, but not noted in any others that I could find. Sample sizes are all small due to a lack of subjects. While the research done thus far may be limited, the general consensus seems to be that the bull is safe to use if he passes a breeding soundness exam. Interestingly, among the studies performed in the seventies and eighties, there was a lot of interest in the sex ratios of among the progeny of the bulls, but none of the studies noted an imbalance and that was pretty much the end of research interest in the bull twins.

It seems to me that we're a ways off from being able to safely say one way or another if the bull twins are likely to have reduced fertility or not. I would personally lean towards castrating all bulls born co-twin to a heifer. The potential for reduced fertility, performance loss from being a twin, and the genetic predisposition to twinning are all concerns.


Return to “Beginners Board”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests