got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

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Rafter S
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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby Rafter S » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:55 am

greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.


I certainly can't speak for him, but I assumed he thought the calf should be cut because he may be more likely to pass along a tendency for having twins. Did you see that in the one you kept?
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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby Red Bull Breeder » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:17 am

So the you expected a 10 month old bottle calf bull to breed your heifer. Was the heifer also a bottle calf? How about a picture of the bottle baby bull you have. They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby jkwilson » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:53 am

Bought a registered bull at 14 months once. He was tested by a known vet right before we bought him and was great. Ran him with a group of 11 cows at a rented place for three months. The guy we bought him from drove by and observed a cow in heat and called us. He was concerned and a few days later had the bull retested at his expense. Came up clear.

He loaned us another bull to try to get everything covered and took the original bull home. When we preg checked, 9 cows had been covered by the original bull for sure, and by actual calving date it seems the tenth was too.

Kicker is that about a month later he had the bull checked again and he was in good shape again. Vet speculated that it was the bulls response to the Electrojac during the second test. Said he seemed more "stressed" by it than most bulls are.

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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby greatgerts » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:35 am

Rafter S wrote:
greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.


I certainly can't speak for him, but I assumed he thought the calf should be cut because he may be more likely to pass along a tendency for having twins. Did you see that in the one you kept?


Out of all of his calves, we only had one set of twins that he sired.

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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby kenny thomas » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:22 pm

greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.

http://articles.extension.org/pages/393 ... eproducing
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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby Son of Butch » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:36 pm

Interesting that male twin to female often has decreased fertility...
I did not realize that, only thought the female (free martin) was affected, but I never used a bull born twin to a heifer.

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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby greybeard » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:14 pm

Son of Butch wrote:Interesting that male twin to female often has decreased fertility...
I did not realize that, only thought the female (free martin) was affected, but I never used a bull born twin to a heifer.

Same here-I learn something new every day.
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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby kenny thomas » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:15 pm

I can't say it's a bad thing but just never took the chance.
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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby WRFarms » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:06 pm

kenny thomas wrote:
greatgerts wrote:
kenny thomas wrote:The very first sentence says it all. Twin to a heifer. Should have been castrated soon after birth.


Do you mind explaining a little more? We used a bull that was twin to a heifer for 6 years without ANY issues. He bred every cow that he had with him, they calved unassisted, and weaned decent. We have quite a few of his daughters in production, and have sold sons to folks from Oklahoma to Georgia.

http://articles.extension.org/pages/393 ... eproducing


The likeliness of reduced fertility of a male twin born co-twin to a heifer is a subject that still needs more investigation. There have been several small studies done over the last few decades and they've been largely inconclusive. Results range from a 58% reduction in fertility, to no discernible loss of fertility. Reduced scrotal circumference has been observed in one study, but not noted in any others that I could find. Sample sizes are all small due to a lack of subjects. While the research done thus far may be limited, the general consensus seems to be that the bull is safe to use if he passes a breeding soundness exam. Interestingly, among the studies performed in the seventies and eighties, there was a lot of interest in the sex ratios of among the progeny of the bulls, but none of the studies noted an imbalance and that was pretty much the end of research interest in the bull twins.

It seems to me that we're a ways off from being able to safely say one way or another if the bull twins are likely to have reduced fertility or not. I would personally lean towards castrating all bulls born co-twin to a heifer. The potential for reduced fertility, performance loss from being a twin, and the genetic predisposition to twinning are all concerns.

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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby BK9954 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:43 pm

SouthernGrit wrote:I have a 12month old bull that was a twin with a heifer.. he's been steady breeding a hiefer of mine for a few months and she still kept coming in..so i figured i need to test him. his semen came out clear.
vet didnt even look under scope. just said he wasnt fertile. ive looked up a few things but cant get anything concrete online. any advice or wisdom? im really hoping that there is still hope for him. was a bottle baby and full angus.. dont get much options down here. went over 4 hours for this bull.

One of them is no good for sure. I had a heifer come into heat for 6 months, she went to the auction. For the vet to not even put the semen under a microscope seems a little lazy. Even if he felt sure it would have given you the peace of mind to do so. I would have asked him to. You paid for it. 12 month old bull should breed a heifer. I bought a 10 month that bred one the first 2 weeks. Bought a other 13 month old bull that bred a cow the first week.
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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby dieselbeef » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:20 am

why would you want to breed an animal that could pass on the twin issue?
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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby farmerjan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:56 am

I know that twins are often frowned upon, but we have had very good success with cows having twins and I for one do not do anything to discourage it. Yes the twins are often smaller, and there fore do wean off smaller, if the cow has enough milk; and I have had to take a few and raise them on a nurse cow when the cow can't make enough milk or just outright rejects them. But in total, the smaller twins do still make up in more total production of weight from a beef cow so more money is realized. Often a twin will learn to steal a few meals elsewhere so they get along pretty well. Just this last year had a cow have twins, and another had a single the same day. Those 2 cows mothered and fed 3 calves and have done pretty good. We have at least one set a year , and have made sure that the cow with the twins takes care of them and gets fed some extra to get her going. If it is an "iffy" situation, I have a small lot where they can be put to make sure she gets extra feed to raise them. To me it is worth it. And the 2 cows that raised the 3 calves this year are both checked preg right along with the rest of the cows in that pasture. I have no more retained placentas, or breeding problems with cows that have twins than I do with the ones that have singles.
And yes, we have more than a few cows so we have some pretty good numbers to substantiate those observations.

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Re: got my bull tested and need some wisdom..

Postby WalnutCrest » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:29 pm

Did you pay the full free for the BSE? Or did you get a discount since he didn't do the full job?
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