Belgians Blues X Holsteins, Any ideas for the heifers

[beznas]

I'm trying to start a small mixed production operation (milk & meat)
A friend of mine offered me some cross bred heifers (6 mos old):

• Holsteins sired with Belgian Blues
• Holsteins sired with Charolais

He's keeping the male calves for beef production

My questions are:

• Any ideas what breed would I cross them with for a better heterosis?
• Sire them with Montbeliards? Limousin? Charolais? BBB?

Any ideas? Any recommendations? Thanks a lot

[Taurus]

I am concerned about Holstein x Belgian Blue heifers since I've heard Belgian Blue cross cows often have birthing problems, althrough I have no experience with this cross.

[ANAZAZI]

I'm trying to start a small mixed production operation (milk & meat)
A friend of mine offered me some cross bred heifers (6 mos old):

• Holsteins sired with Belgian Blues
• Holsteins sired with Charolais

He's keeping the male calves for beef production

My questions are:

• Any ideas what breed would I cross them with for a better heterosis?
• Sire them with Montbeliards? Limousin? Charolais? BBB?

Any ideas? Any recommendations? Thanks a lot

First, belgian blue sired heifers milks far more than charolais sired heifers.
Out of the mentioned breeds all provide good heterosis, except for charolais on charolais sired heifers. Charolais is not a breed to AI heifers with at all due to very big calves. Limousin gives you good muscle and and growth, and very little milk.
Montbeliarde has more milk and decent growth, and less muscle.

Use VIKING RED semen this first year, safer calvings than holstein, more muscle than holsteins, less than montbelliarde, somewhere halfway between. And the provide good milk, closer to holsteins than to montbelliarde.
Later years, stay on the same course, or if meat is very important, go to montbelliarde.
It is safe to use BB semen on first cross BB cows, later generations may lead to seriously difficult calvings. Simmethal (Fleckvieh) is an option too, with decent milk and great growth, often big calves so not an option for the first calf.
Also, Piedmontese can be a choice, great muscle, decent growth and milk.
All my answers assume that you keep replacements for milking. If not, limousine is a fine breed for this kind of crossing.

[beznas]

A million thanks for the replies.

I was planning to use Montbeliard semen on them the first year then go to Charolais semen on the (BB x Holstein) and BB semen on the (Charolais x Holstein) their second and third times.
And use a different breed on each generation for at least 4 gens?

Just something I made up. Any input from you guys. Remember, I'm trying to cultivate my own heifers and sell the steers for meat. Some milk wouldn't bother me.

Thanks a bunch

[JWBrahman]

The smallest calf I've ever seen came from a Charolais bull. There are a million ways to lose your -ss in the cattle business. The first way is to breed pedigrees and registration certificates instead of breeding cattle.

[bluedog]

for what it is worth,should bred heifers to easy calving bull,first time.at least-3 epd calving ease.after first calf ,then try some others.bluedog

[cow pollinater]

There are plenty of calving ease charolais out there. Mine have all been under eighty five pounds.
Brown swiss would be another breed choice... Beefy but with great milk production. Normande is another one that comes to mind but they won't milk as hard as the swiss.

[Massey135]

The smallest calf I've ever seen came from a Charolais bull. There are a million ways to lose your -ss in the cattle business. The first way is to breed pedigrees and registration certificates instead of breeding cattle.

This guy already deserves guru status

[glacierridge]

SIMMENTAL!!!!!
You won't be sorry.
We have been raising BB cross since 1996, we have crossed them with a little bit of everything for calving ease purposes, Charolais, Shorthorn, Maine Anjou, Senepol, Gelbvieh and even Brahman... (we didn't go Angus cause it seemed to be going backwards from where we were trying to go with creating a niche for a leaner animal.)

The Simmental and BB seem to have the best legs, best milk, best temperament while also having the best growth as far as raising the steers for meat.
After experimenting with all the other breeds over the years, we are sticking with this mix.

(with the exception of my sister in law's highland bull for clean up on what we can't stick with AI---That breed is something new we are trying on a very limited scale for "HAIR" on my nephews show steers, not that hair makes them taste better but try telling that to the fair judges, but research says that breed also has good carcass quality that shouldn't ruin what we have)

[Nite Hawk]

Be aware that holsteins are also often known for difficult calving tendency, so for a first calf heifer I would definately look for an easy calving bull.
Nite Hawk

[redcowsrule33]

I knew a gentleman that had quite a few of BB x HO crosses in his dairy barn, followed them through several years. Impressions on the lot compared to their straight HO barnmates: far poorer milk with a short lactation, got fat very quickly on a dairy ration, and hard breeders. Most did not stay long. If he had used them as suckler cows they may have done better. I have also had personal experience with a few CH x HO crosses growing up (the inseminator grabbed the wrong canes from the tank when breeding a few of the dairy cows ). One turned into a lovely cow that really looked like a blonde Holstein, milked like one too, she was in the suckler cow herd and raised a smasher of a calf until old age despite her looks. In my opinion (for what it's worth) since your goal is a dual purpose herd, I would breed them to a calving ease Angus or Red Angus for the first calves and sell them for beef, see what kind of COW you have in each of their dams, then breed accordingly, as some will lean more dairy and some more beef. In Europe Fleckvieh have many bulls that could help you achieve a more homogenous group in a few generations.

[glacierridge]

That's weird that the one farmer had problems with milking bb x ho. My dad was milking 1/2 and 3/4 blood bb for a few years before finally selling the last of the straightbred holsteins. Never had problems with those girls and they had less production than a straightbred but they had higher butterfat.
I have heard great things about Fleckvieh too, but know they are related to Simmental.
But for calving ease on the first calf I would go Simmental over Fleckvieh as I'm not sure how good the calving ease is on them.
Two Simmental bulls we have been having real decent luck with is Hooks Majestic and Red Density from Select Sires. If you are looking for milkers, Hooks Majestic will probably be your best bet. They say his daughters have strong udders and the two we have are under a year old but they have impressive growth and their brothers are fast growing meat animals.

[brihop]

sounds like you're leaning towards beef production. however, my 2 cents would be to breed to a true dual purpose type of bull and then stay the dual purpose course, so you get a more consistent supply of beef/milk from the offspring. Milking devon or milking shorthorn, or dual purpose Simmental would be a good cross on those heifers you were thinking of buying. however, if i were to pick 1 it would be DP Simm.