pharo cattle

[Massey135]

JS - you are right. Your area cannot sustain heavy/big cows. And plumber-greg & my herd probably easily maintain at least 1 BCS (maybe 2) higher than your cattle. It's environment. If our cattle went into winter with poor BCS, we couldn't feed them enough to get them into calving condition. Winters are way too harsh. But, summers & fall are lush grasses.
Environment - environment.

I could have sworn I read you write "it snowed 185 days" one year at your place. How, in an area where you have to supplement the land and feed during those 185+ days, can you say your herd "maintains" a higher BCS?

When I hear people speaking in terms of "maintaining condition" it is generally in the sense of what they can do WITHOUT supplement.

Cattle here are their fattest about DEC 1 and then from there gradually lose condition, calve mid jan-feb, then about march 1 they're at their poorest bcs of the year- spring annuals start coming and they start gaining again. They gain till early july maintain till late sep and gain a little from oct-dec1.

[ALACOWMAN]

i cant get my cattle to start gaining back after march 1st ... they can crap through a screen door, till the moisture content in the grass settles down... they look like someone stole their guts at times

[JSCATTLE]

I've seen cows hauled from my area down south of San Antonio at 4 years old and 2 years later it looked like they grew 6 inches taller . I guess with the amount of rain we get it leaches our soil pretty bad . I know we can't bring cattle from 200 miles north of us and expect to drop them in a pasture. I've got a friend that tried and his cows like to have starved standing in knee deep grass . It cost him a bunch of money to fatten them so he could sell em .

[plumber_greg]

I'm gonna' try to reply to your statements, Massey. Jeanne and I do what we must to "maintain" our cows condition. You ask what they can do with out supplement. Is stockpiled fescue, in my area uptowards of 20% protein, supplmentation? You've never seen how fat a cow can get on stockpiled fescue. The lespedeza and birdsfoot trefoil seeded out is like turning them in to Jim's cornfield. Is that supplementing them? My cattle couldn't survive in N. Texas, but yours couldn't in NW Mo. either.
If it snowed 185 days in NY, and the cows were in poor condition going into that time, there is no way to "maintain" conditon during that time without somekind of help, our land gives us that. Enviroment-enviroment gs

[Massey135]

I have cows from deep southwest Texas, Saskatchewan Canada, north Dakota and Kansas. True I know nothing of fescue, nor do I want to- I have tifton 85 in the summer-but what I do have are cows grazing pasture right now with elbon rye and crimson and arrow leaf clover 18" tall. I could easily run 2 units to the acre right now.

Now why couldn't my cows thrive in nw Missouri?

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

We don't have snow every day for 185 days, but our snow season is 185 days averaging 120". There is not stockpiling pasture around here. But, our cattle are supplimented with HAY and mineral. Not supplimented with grain as you seem to imply. It is hay grown on our land. Like I said - environment. We do things differently than you, but that doesn't make our cows better or worse than yours. Bottom line - is the BOTTOM LINE. My cows cost an average of just under $500/yr - that's all expenses reported to IRS (cows obsorb calf costs) - fertilizer, fuel, haying expense, mineral, health supplies, vet, equip exp, etc etc. My weaned STEERS averaged $870 last November, so they more than covered the cost of the cow with a bit of PROFIT.
It doesn't make any difference how we get there - we are all striving to make a living with our cattle. And we do that the best way we can in our ENVIRONMENT!!

[ABrauny]

We don't have snow every day for 185 days, but our snow season is 185 days averaging 120". There is not stockpiling pasture around here. But, our cattle are supplimented with HAY and mineral. Not supplimented with grain as you seem to imply. It is hay grown on our land. Like I said - environment. We do things differently than you, but that doesn't make our cows better or worse than yours. Bottom line - is the BOTTOM LINE. My cows cost an average of just under $500/yr - that's all expenses reported to IRS (cows obsorb calf costs) - fertilizer, fuel, haying expense, mineral, health supplies, vet, equip exp, etc etc. My weaned STEERS averaged $870 last November, so they more than covered the cost of the cow with a bit of PROFIT.
It doesn't make any difference how we get there - we are all striving to make a living with our cattle. And we do that the best way we can in our ENVIRONMENT!!

Here! Here!

[plumber_greg]

[quote="Massey135"]I have cows from deep southwest Texas, Saskatchewan Canada, north Dakota and Kansas. True I know nothing of fescue, nor do I want to- I have tifton 85 in the summer-but what I do have are cows grazing pasture right now with elbon rye and crimson and arrow leaf clover 18" tall. I could easily run 2 units to the acre right now.

Now why couldn't my cows thrive in nw Missouri?[/quote
Sorry, Massey, my grass would, if not kill, ruin your cows. Saw too many times cows like yours grazing stuff like that, I wish I had some, bought and brought to Mo. Two years later half are bred, rough coats, no tails etc. They can't handle the fescue. Anyone that has had experence with it knows this. One year when I was young, I had some extra money, bought a bunch of heifers ready to calve that originated in Montana, brought to Neb. as yearlings. I forget the numbers now, but ended up with less than half bred back. Lesson learned.
So I guess the reason they wouldn't thrive in Mo. is enviroment, our cows are adapted to our enviroment. Enviroment doesn't mean only cold weather, it means the cow does what she needs to do all year long. I don't know what tifton 85 is. gs

[Red Bull Breeder]

20% protein fescue, whats it take to grow that??

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

20% protein fescue, whats it take to grow that??

"supplimental input"

[Red Bull Breeder]

Yes supplimental input, at that 20% protein fescue would be hard to come by.

[ALACOWMAN]

Yes supplimental input, at that 20% protein fescue would be hard to come by.

i dont think thats what he meant

[dun]

Yes supplimental input, at that 20% protein fescue would be hard to come by.

i dont think thats what he meant

I think around 15% is far more common, but that's KY31 with the negative of high endophyte that is poisoning them while it's giving them good nutritional values

[ALACOWMAN]

like eating a greasy cheeseburger

[dun]

like eating a greasy cheeseburger

What's wrong with a greasy cheeseburger? Don;t have to swallow, just kind of slickeries and slides down your throat