Birthweights

[bpwagner115]

Going to attend a simmental bull sale this evening and wondering how much emphasis to place on actual BW. Most are listed as having over 100lb bw some 110 range. This seems very high but their bw epd's are between -1 and 2.1. Is a simmental bull with bw epd of 2 and actual bw of 110 too big for a 1200lb commercial cow? I know this is dependent upon countless factors, but these gaudy bw numbers are freaking me out a little bit.

[dun]

They would me too, particularly in a crossbreeding situation

[ALACOWMAN]

They would me too, particularly in a crossbreeding situation

aint that the truth

[Limomike]

Going to attend a simmental bull sale this evening and wondering how much emphasis to place on actual BW. Most are listed as having over 100lb bw some 110 range. This seems very high but their bw epd's are between -1 and 2.1. Is a simmental bull with bw epd of 2 and actual bw of 110 too big for a 1200lb commercial cow? I know this is dependent upon countless factors, but these gaudy bw numbers are freaking me out a little bit.

too big.. I dont know. scary yes...

[Red Bull Breeder]

Just try one first calf crop should give you a good idea if its to big or not.If you don't think your cows are capable of having a 100lb calf i think i would pass till i found a better birthweight bull.

[sim.-ang.king]

EPD's don't make since to me sometimes. The pb simmy I have had a BW of 50 lbs, and his epd is only -0.1, and his sire was -1.2 bw and the dam was 1.0 bw. He has had three bull calves and so far, #1 was 40lbs, #2 was 45lbs, #3 was 65lbs. So why is his -0.1 and not lower when these 100lbs bw bull have a lower number then him? Do they not take in to accout the calfs bw when figuring bw or is it just avrage of the sire and dam? I'm not crying over it but just wondering how it gets done?

[angusdave63]

it is not only the breed index but the contemporary group that goes into figuring this. i had a bc marathon son and he has never sired a calf over 72 pounds, and he has a + 2.5 bw and almost all of his calves are 60 to 70 pounds at birth. with that said i would never keep a calf for a bull with a bw over 90 pounds. but you have to remember that those cows up north go through colder winters than cattle in the midwest and southern states. and that adds a little to the bw.

[JustSimmental]

Are these Fleckviehs you are talking about? (must be--wow) Terrible BW's.

Just so you know, for example when and Angus BW is zero a PB Simmental is +5.2.
I would never put a 100 lb BW bull on a 1200 lb cow -- unless you just want to learn about C-sections.

Simmental is adjusting their EPD's, in July 2012, and will be adding 2.2 lbs to the numbers, NOW.
So a bull with a BW EPD of +2 is really a +4.2. I believe a Bulls actual BW is very important and a way for us to amke better decisions. If I had 1200 lb cows, I would look for a Bull that had upper 70's on BW Max with a CE above 10 with a BW EPD of no more than 2.

Here is an example: this 3/4 bull weighed 78 lbs at birth and he is out of a Lucky Man daughter who is a mature cow at 5 yrs of age (mature weight 1350 lbs). Sire of this Bull calf is GW Predestined.

https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2606978

JS

Going to attend a simmental bull sale this evening and wondering how much emphasis to place on actual BW. Most are listed as having over 100lb bw some 110 range. This seems very high but their bw epd's are between -1 and 2.1. Is a simmental bull with bw epd of 2 and actual bw of 110 too big for a 1200lb commercial cow? I know this is dependent upon countless factors, but these gaudy bw numbers are freaking me out a little bit.

[Caustic Burno]

I wore out a set of chains pulling Char calves and Simm came in second on crossbred cow's.
You have to remember hybred vigor start's at conception not birth.

[JustSimmental]

Yeah flecks are just NOT good in the CE and BW category and Ive seen some PB Simms in that category as well but on much fewer occasions --ya gotta gettem on the ground first, ya know, before you can sell any. People always pursue the weight gain without first looking at the differences in phenotypes-- keeps the vets in business that's for sure. I have been lucky-- I haven't pulled a calf in 20 years.

I wore out a set of chains pulling Char calves and Simm came in second on crossbred cow's.
You have to remember hybred vigor start's at conception not birth.

[George]

I wore out a set of chains pulling Char calves and Simm came in second on crossbred cow's.
You have to remember hybred vigor start's at conception not birth.

You defiantly need to be more selective on your bull buying then!!

[Caustic Burno]

I wore out a set of chains pulling Char calves and Simm came in second on crossbred cow's.
You have to remember hybred vigor start's at conception not birth.

You defiantly need to be more selective on your bull buying then!!

Yea your right that was when no such thing as across breed comparison.
Thankfully through clairvoyant thinking, and crystal ball's across breed epd's were developed.
What you fail to realize is Simms didn't really come on the scene to 1970 and Chars until the late sixties with the exception of a few smuggled up from Mexico due to the quarantine agreement between Canada, Mexico and the USA to stop hoof and mouth disease. In 1929 or 30 Congress passed a law making it illegal to import cattle from a country that had a known case within X number of years. The quarantine wasn't lifted until the late sixties.
Then the fad cattle hit like Angus of today along with a whole lot of train wrecks. I haven't had a Char bull close to a cow I owned since 1976 and won't burnt child is scared of fire

[Caustic Burno]

Stand corrected looked it up was 1940 not 30.
In the mid-1940s an outbreak of Hoof and Mouth Disease occurred in Mexico. As a result, a treaty between the United States, Canada and Mexico set up a permanent quarantine against cattle coming into any of these countries from Europe or any country in which Hoof and Mouth Disease was known to exist.

This barred any further importation of French Charolais on this continent until 1965 when Canada opened the import doors via rigid quarantine both in France and in Canada

[bpwagner115]

Well I didn't pull the trigger at the sale....most were out of my price range. I atleast got a buyers number this time! Got close to pulling the trigger on a 5/8 simmental with nice numbers (bw .5 ww 44.6 (115 ratio) yw 82.4 (109 ratio) ratioed 108 and 109 for IMF and REA) but between the actual bw of 104 and the fact that sire and dam were both crossbred I stayed away...

[user1]

None of these numbers are the gospel. They need to be used along with body structure. When BW and EPD are drastically opposed you have to question mark them. What happens if a cow slips or gets butted and calves a week early is that calfs BW a true indicator. What about an ET calf. The total package is what you have to go for.