best beefmaster cross?

[Lon]

THERE IS AN EQUIVALENT IN ALL BREEDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PICK A BREED YOU LIKE AND FIND THE INDIVIDUAL WITHIN THE BREED THAT SPECIALIZES IN THE AREA YOU'RE TRYING TO FOCUS ON!!!!!! Nothing is more elementary than to see people suggest breeds in general with no regard to type. There are 5 frame charolais' and there are 7 frame angus. Don't tell me Charolais cows are too big. Whose Charolais Cows are too big? Mine or yours???

If your considering keeping replacements, I would select a bull thats epds suggest he is geared or specialized towards the maternal characteristics. Calving Ease, low Birthweight, average ww, average or below yw, moderate to high milk (although your beefmasters should have adequate milk), high maternal calving ease numbers, moderate to high docility, and so forth. Avoid any kind of high bw- high growth(above average) genetics as growth and maternal ability are antagonistic by nature and you cannot get one with out giving up some of the other. YOU CANT DO IT. You can afford to give up a little weaning weight in years you plan on retaining heifers. You CANNOT afford to give up any maternal quality.

First comment Yes very true but picking a certain breed can give you easier acess to the type your looking for.(Char growth, Angus carcass qualities, hereford rangy type cattle, shorthorns nice milkers etc etc) Notice i say type because i do agree the above is very true in regards to there is an equivelent within every breed.
Second comment Honestly one of the best ways i have seen this point put across in simple terms anyone can grasp.

[Lon]

If they have high milk numbers, shouldn't they have a high ww? If not what's the point of a strong milker?

The way i see it and i could be wrong but my mind says a strong milker has the ability to help a terminal (or any but using terminal because thats when looking for most lbs) calf grow to its fullest potential. In other words if you bred for decent milk and then took that cow and bred her for a terminal calf that should have high ww (assuming your selling at weaning) than that milk will help the genetics in the calf really shine come weaning time. So high ww is genetics to grow the higher milk numbers is the groceries the calf needs to allow genetics to work.

[Lon]

No.. think of a jersey. 800lb cow that milks 80lbs a day. very high milk #s, very low growth #s. You want to inject the growth with the sire. There is no point in feeding 1500lb cows. Ideally, I would have 1000lb cows that are heavy milkers and when crossed with a high growth bull, the resulting calves would get the growth genetics from their sire and the fuel to grow from their mothers. This is the situation where you look out and see calves suckin on their momas that are taller than they are. When you start seeing animals that are high ww and high milk, be learly. While the ones with high ww may also milk more than average- I guarantee you its not more relative to their mature size. Many of these type animals are highly inefficient in their conversions of grass/feed to lbs of gain or lbs of milk production. Think dual purpose. They do both but lack the specialization in either.

The only reason people generally shy away from high milk numbers is that high milk numbers are generally associated with harder doing cattle because the majority of those heavy milkers are jus big ass cattle. Find the ones that aren't. They do exist. Perfect example is the shorthorns that J Bar J has in Fallon Nevada http://joycebarnes.vpweb.com/Ranch-Cattle.html While JbarJ refers to them as "milking shorthorn", they are not the type that most associate with milking cattle... or milking shorthorns for that matter. They are 1000lb cows that milk heavily and because of their reduced mature weight, they have the ability to milk heavily without falling apart in the pasture. You put this "TYPE", notice I didn't say breed as Im sure there are animals of this TYPE in many breeds, of cows with a terminal continental sire and you'll be sailing down the Tahlequah singing Kanye's "La,la,la,la wait till I get my money right" $$$$$$$$$$$$$

In regards to the entire second paragraph. Yes very true exactly what i am looking at wanting to do myself. That small cow round 1100 lbs give or take that is rangy and still raises a calf because of milk.(like alot of saler cattle) This type of cow is ideal in my mind (this comment will give a good idea between difference of ww and milk also) because you constantly see cattle getting bigger and bigger. They do not raise a bigger calf in comparison regarding weaning % of mothers weight. The big cows have growth the higher ww numbers on thier side but to stay together and breed back year after year in real range conditions these big cows can not be heavy in milk. The little cows though that raise just as big if not more % weaning of mothers weight are doing it off of milk in the same senerio but they tend to be able to get out there and range and breed back year after year even with that milk. Both give you about the same calf under the same scenerio but its a whole lot easier to maintain them small deep heavy cows that grow less frame through out most the year exspecially winter time when hay is such an important commidity.

Keep in mind though i am talking in range type conditions not in regards to grazing the places some poeple have that are suited to growing high bushel corn. Them type of places they say thier feed is wasted up a smaller cow and i can not argue that point because i have to personal experience in that type of setting.

[thommoos]

One of the best slaughters that I have done has been a Beefmaster cow with a Simm sire, Excellent ww and yealing weight and it fed out the best I have ever seen. The replacement have been great also. Granted these were moderate frame cows not exceeding 1250 lbs. But they raise some great terminal and replacement calves

[ALACOWMAN]

One of the best slaughters that I have done has been a Beefmaster cow with a Simm sire, Excellent ww and yealing weight and it fed out the best I have ever seen. The replacement have been great also. Granted these were moderate frame cows not exceeding 1250 lbs. But they raise some great terminal and replacement calves

sorry not enough info,, need to spin a little more yarn.... personal experiances dont count

[Massey135]

THERE IS AN EQUIVALENT IN ALL BREEDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PICK A BREED YOU LIKE AND FIND THE INDIVIDUAL WITHIN THE BREED THAT SPECIALIZES IN THE AREA YOU'RE TRYING TO FOCUS ON!!!!!! Nothing is more elementary than to see people suggest breeds in general with no regard to type. There are 5 frame charolais' and there are 7 frame angus. Don't tell me Charolais cows are too big. Whose Charolais Cows are too big? Mine or yours???

If your considering keeping replacements, I would select a bull thats epds suggest he is geared or specialized towards the maternal characteristics. Calving Ease, low Birthweight, average ww, average or below yw, moderate to high milk (although your beefmasters should have adequate milk), high maternal calving ease numbers, moderate to high docility, and so forth. Avoid any kind of high bw- high growth(above average) genetics as growth and maternal ability are antagonistic by nature and you cannot get one with out giving up some of the other. YOU CANT DO IT. You can afford to give up a little weaning weight in years you plan on retaining heifers. You CANNOT afford to give up any maternal quality.

First comment Yes very true but picking a certain breed can give you easier acess to the type your looking for.(Char growth, Angus carcass qualities, hereford rangy type cattle, shorthorns nice milkers etc etc) Notice i say type because i do agree the above is very true in regards to there is an equivelent within every breed.
Second comment Honestly one of the best ways i have seen this point put across in simple terms anyone can grasp.

Lon,
I hope you can see how the bolded comment applies to incorporating shorthorn genetics in your cowherd. The added maternal qualities of the shorthorn f1 female more than compensate for the docked cwt on a few roan steers.

[Limomike]

Limousin or Simm

[Lon]

Lon,
I hope you can see how the bolded comment applies to incorporating shorthorn genetics in your cowherd. The added maternal qualities of the shorthorn f1 female more than compensate for the docked cwt on a few roan steers.

Yes i can see as i have could always see the postive attributes that shorthorn genetics could bring to a cowherd if using ones bred for the pasture. No you will not get me to see that the added maternal qualities of the shorty cross female will more than compensate for the docked cwt on a few roan steers. Mainly just put short and sweet is because we both agree there are equivelents in all breeds if you look for them, so i can find what im looking for in another breed without bringing in the roan color and recieving the dock for it.
You have a better chance of breeding the roan color out of them shortys than you do on changing my mind about taking the dock they will bring, even though i think there are some good ones.

[Massey135]

Lon,
I hope you can see how the bolded comment applies to incorporating shorthorn genetics in your cowherd. The added maternal qualities of the shorthorn f1 female more than compensate for the docked cwt on a few roan steers.

Yes i can see as i have could always see the postive attributes that shorthorn genetics could bring to a cowherd if using ones bred for the pasture. No you will not get me to see that the added maternal qualities of the shorty cross female will more than compensate for the docked cwt on a few roan steers. Mainly just put short and sweet is because we both agree there are equivelents in all breeds if you look for them, so i can find what im looking for in another breed without bringing in the roan color and recieving the dock for it.
You have a better chance of breeding the roan color out of them shortys than you do on changing my mind about taking the dock they will bring, even though i think there are some good ones.

Excellent reply, Lon. With equivalents out there, its hard to argue for the shortys but there's jus somethin bout there personalities that I jus love- its that lingering dairy cow genetics in em. If youve been around dairy stock you know what I mean.

The one thing the shorty has on the rest is that you can have a 100% british, black f1. A solid black, better milking, easier doin Angus. That in itself is golden in todays market.

[Julian]

The most attractive sire I've ever seen was a Red Angus x Beefmaster cross. The females of that same cross were wonderful cows. This is from my experiences in Burleson county Texas.

[JustSimmental]

If I am not mistaken the BeefMaster is 50% Brahman (BR) 25% Hrf and 25% SH.

I really like this breed as they really work well in hot, wet places. What bothered me about them was the high percent of BR, which is usually a carcass merit killer. King Ranch did a huge study on Gerts back in the late 80's and early 90's where the cattle with 3/8's BR just weren't making the Grade. They moved forward with a new breed at that time. My understanding was that all the breeds with 3/8's + BR were not going to be able to compete on carcass merits with the other popular breeds.

I don't like the idea of going with more Hereford, although they would definately decrease some of the MM in the PB Beefmaster, but would further decrease frame in the wrong direction.

I dont really like the idea of using more SH due to larger frames and high MM, which increases maintenance requirements for your cows (when you keep heifers).

I think that Red Angus would be a good call, because you would get a decrease in MM (which you need) without greatly affecting Frame scores, which will keep those maintenance costs down on any replacements you keep. Other good things about Red Angus is docility (calmer cattle gain better), carcass merits, better dressing percentage and decreased BW's just to name a few.

The best thing about it from a meat standpoint is the decrease in BR blood to 25%.

JS

If you were to cross beefmaster, what breed would add the most? Looking for something that will produce heavy steers and still be able to produce replacements.

[heath]

JS, thanks for the reply with your reasonings. That's what I was looking for, so I could weigh my options. My herd has about every type of cow, wanting to get am idea of which crosses will be the best to hold back.

[jerry27150]

sorry i did not get back. trailboss is right. red angus have more choice carcsses than black as they are still 100% angus, where the blacks have had other breeds creep into them. they do take the heat better & are a lot calmer.the king ranch claimed that their red angus-gert crosses outgrew anything they've had. some feedlots only want calves with half red angus & will pay more for them