cow longevity

[cbcr]

Given time the livestock will adapt to the managment and the environment as long as it is consistent.
this is assuming you keep your own replacements and select the ones that are sucessful in the managment and the environment.

If the managment strategy is to go to the sale barn and reload every couple of years then expect the status quo or less.

to match genetic change to managment one first must have a clear understanding of their management and environment. they must understand the advantages and the limitations of the environment they create. what genetic factors are needed to enhance performance within the environment.

while flexibility is a key to surviving in livestock agriculture, one must not lose sight of the goals and strategies of how to achieve the goals. Consistency and time are what it takes to develop a functional herd of cattle.

Couldn't have said it any better.

[vclavin]

I agree with what you say, but, I'd like to add a good herdsman is not afraid to get input from other knowledgeable sources such as beef specialists, geneticists, association departments who deal with these issues, and of course these boards where cattleman share their experiences and expertise. You must be willng to get help with what you Don't understand. Sometimes and outsider can give you insights about your herd that you missed.
Valerie

[1wlimo]

I agree with what you say, but, I'd like to add a good herdsman is not afraid to get input from other knowledgeable sources such as beef specialists, geneticists, association departments who deal with these issues, and of course these boards where cattleman share their experiences and expertise. You must be willng to get help with what you Don't understand. Sometimes and outsider can give you insights about your herd that you missed.
Valerie

Very true,

even an outsider who knows very little about your operation, or even beef may just have that insight that helps if you listen. A fersh pair of eyes and mind is always useful.

My Grandfather said "we always need to be learning" and "there is always sombody doing it better than we do"

[Isomade]

[quote="cbcr"][quote="pdfangus"]

Given time the livestock will adapt to the managment and the environment as long as it is consistent.
this is assuming you keep your own replacements and select the ones that are sucessful in the managment and the environment.

If the managment strategy is to go to the sale barn and reload every couple of years then expect the status quo or less.

to match genetic change to managment one first must have a clear understanding of their management and environment. they must understand the advantages and the limitations of the environment they create. what genetic factors are needed to enhance performance within the environment.

while flexibility is a key to surviving in livestock agriculture, one must not lose sight of the goals and strategies of how to achieve the goals. Consistency and time are what it takes to develop a
functional herd of cattle.
I agree!
If you buy cows who were raised with different grass, mineral, water, and an overall management practice it can take two years before you realize that cows full potential while her body adjusts. If you aren't consistent in your own management you may never realize her potential. I have learned the hard way that this is one component not figured in when one is making the decision to "buy or raise their own replacement heifers."

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

[1wlimo]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

How does the statment "always more stock for a relativly harsh enviroment to a milder one" standup against the time and ability to "adapt"

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

How does the statment "always more stock for a relativly harsh enviroment to a milder one" standup against the time and ability to "adapt"

I'm not sure what you are asking?
I would say it would take longer to get cattle adjusted to a harsh environment than a milder one - that would be logical. But all situations can and may be different. You take one of my long, thick haired cow and stick her in the South, and she is going to have a problem.

[1wlimo]

I find that to be completely true. Whenever we purchase open or bred heifers, we have to pencil in the fact that they are not going to be as fertile or productive as the rest of the herd for the first 2 years here until they "adapt". Actually, open heifers adapt quicker than breds.

How does the statment "always more stock for a relativly harsh enviroment to a milder one" standup against the time and ability to "adapt"

I'm not sure what you are asking?
I would say it would take longer to get cattle adjusted to a harsh environment than a milder one - that would be logical. But all situations can and may be different. You take one of my long, thick haired cow and stick her in the South, and she is going to have a problem.

"relative" was the key word I was trying to use.

So is there an advantage to buying say your replacment heifers from say where it is -40 and they have a 220 day winter and moving them to somewhere where the winter is only -20 and 180 days for example. Compare to buying from the farm next door who has the same enviroment as you.

[pdfangus]

I agree with what you say, but, I'd like to add a good herdsman is not afraid to get input from other knowledgeable sources such as beef specialists, geneticists, association departments who deal with these issues, and of course these boards where cattleman share their experiences and expertise. You must be willng to get help with what you Don't understand. Sometimes and outsider can give you insights about your herd that you missed.
Valerie

absolutley......
but you can not go off chasing every fad or all the latest wisdom from the latest expert and continuously change the operational goals.
sometimes this is hard to resist. I have made mistakes in this regard myself in my wild and impetuous middle age. fortunately I had a pretty fixed set of environmental constraints to keep me grounded. In my old age I have found new tools to assist me in better managing that environment with less inputs.
the hardest thing for us to do was to find a correct stocking rate for the operation. In our area it is due to the extreme variety of weather patterns. If we stock for a good year then most years we are way over stocked. If we stock for a hard year then most years we are understocked. I have yet to be able to define a normal year. but I did determine a target number of cattle that was about mid way and manage the grass and other inputs around that stocking rate.

[Stocker Steve]

Save calves and run them on grass in the good years...
Sell calves early on the bad years...

[pdfangus]

I neglected to describe that our good and bad years have no defined season. The winter of 2009-2010 was unlike any I have seen since the early sixites. We had snow frequent and heavy and that is far from normal for us.

this past winter where so many got slammed with snow we barely got the ground covered ocassionally and had one of the mildest winters in ten years. ground was not still enough to put nitrogen on small grain until early march.

Last spring the rains would not quit and field work was late and when corn finally got planted it took off like a rocket. then the rain quit in April and the blast furnace hit just about tasseling time and corn was a total failure around here.
most fields were bush hogged. Naturally in that weather there was no second growth grass. we did not have meaningful rain from early May until October.

every year is different and that is why it is hard to describe a normal year. thus It is also hard to plan for a normal year.

[Stocker Steve]

every year is different and that is why it is hard to describe a normal year.

I think we do not normally have a normal year.
This year we discussed destocking because it is so wet...
1) If you raise replacements and/or take yearlings to grass - - then you have a lot of stocking flexibility.
2) If you can hire some custom haying then you have a very large amount of stocking flexibility.
3) If you can schedule some renovation and/or some inputs then you have a huge amount of stocking flexibility.
4) If you can buy and feed by products then you have a gigantic amount of stocking flexibility.

I have developed a dislike for running numbers and buying bred heifers and picking rocks so I am going with #1, #4, #3, #2 in that order. I love it when a plan comes together!

[dun]

She's starting to show her age pretty badly, but still raising a dandy calf.

[vclavin]

How old is she Dun? Keep any daughters out of her?
Valerie

[dun]

How old is she Dun? Keep any daughters out of her?
Valerie

Based on her bangs tag she's 24 this year. She had a daughter 10 years ago but she went down the road when she prolapsed but I have one of that cows daughters. That was the only heifer Granny had until the last 3 years, a heifer 3 years in a row now all sired by the same bull, a fullblood Fleckvieh