More profit in stockers?

[brandonm_13]

I understand that, but even putting it on paper and having it work out that way can be way off. In a perfect world, you could buy calves when they are down in the spring, say 350-400 pounders for $.90 a pound, run them through until fall on a good rainy year, gaining 2.5 pounds per day, and sell them when calf prices went up and make $350 per calf, because none got sick or died. In reality, you're probably going to buy them at $1.10 a pound, sell them at $.75-80 a pound, lose 10%, average $10-20 per head in vet bills/dewormer/etc, and they will gain between 1-1.75 pounds per day, making you maybe $20-60 per calf, but that's just a wild guess.

[rowdyred]

thats what I was looking for in an answer, so on the high end I could make around $60 per head, I was hoping for around $100-$150 per head, is that being unrealistic?

[brandonm_13]

I don't think it's being unrealistic, but I wouldn't expect it until you have mastered different aspects of product and marketing. I don't know about Mississippi's extension service, but usually you can get information on buy/sell margins by month for the past x number of years. That will help you with expected costs and revenues. You really need a book called No Risk Ranching by Greg Judy (available at the Stockman Grass Farmer's website). It is all about running stockers and cows on leased land. You may even consider finishing some of the stockers and direct marketing the cattle, which will increase your profit margins.

Really to make any money in any of it, you need to have good grass and use no feed, just salt and minerals. Keeping your inputs low may mean the cows won't grow as fast. And that means less profit in a good year, but in a bad year, it could keep you from going under.

[rowdyred]

Thanks

[Texas PaPaw]

If I could only read 1 book about stocker cattle it would be "Thoughts and advice from an old Cattleman" by Gordon Hazard. This is the best book I have ever read regarding stocker cattle. Lots of good ideas that are applicable to cow-calf also. You can get it from Powerflex fence. They also have Greg Judy's books.

http://www.powerflexfence.com/catalog01.25.html


2 other books from Stockman Grassfarmer I consider a must read, especially for stocker operators are:

"Pasture profits with Stocker cattle" and "Knowledge Rich Ranching".

http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/Bookshelf.html

[options]

Depends. Bankers are not quite as keen on stockers. They see the potential to lose a bunch of money in a couple months if you do not have some type of risk protection.

I didn't know that. I was thinking the risk was less with stockers.

That could be inpart because you thought BASIS was profit.

[Ewassall]

I'm new....and I generally try to always apply the rule of listening for a while, before opening my own mouth, so instead of stating an opinion, I'll pose a question that will hopefully get you all to continue talking about this topic, because I find it very informative and interesting.

If someone has a calf/cow operation, is it generally profitable to add on the stocker aspect as well? (if they have the right forage, and enough land)

Other than land, time, and feed for the cattle, what sort of additional costs would there be, (including start-up)?

Thanks.

[kenny thomas]

Remember that to also have stockers they will have to have a totally different pasture and management. Hard for a small farmer to do. Calves here in the spring are usually the highest of the year. Sickness is always a problem, as is getting them sold if you do not have a full load.
Most stocker operations here buy in the fall run, which is cheaper, winter them on corn sileage, graze them in the spring and summer and sell them early August. Some years get rich, some years break even or loose a little. Most have from 300-700 head to make it work.

[brandonm_13]

Stockers can be used as a management tool. For example any year you have too much grass. Instead of burning fuel and wearing out your tractor bush hogging, you can purchase extra cattle to mow it back. Yes there is a chance you could lose money this way, but you are always losing money when your riding your tractor burning fuel, especially if you have to pay someone else to drive that tractor.

[Stocker Steve]

Most have from 300-700 head to make it work.

What do you mean by "make it work"?

[kenny thomas]

Here profit margin is small and it takes that many to make a good living. It can work for smaller scale but the profit is not there for a total living to be made without something else to help.
Most here figure $100 per head profit at best. 300 head X $100 per head=$30,000. Not a great payday for a years work. At 50 head it would be $5,000. Not worth it unless you have something else to pay the bills.

[brandonm_13]

$30k is a pretty good payday to me. Not saying you could make those profit margins, but still $30k is pennies for one person and wealth for another.

[Ewassall]

$30k is a pretty good payday to me. Not saying you could make those profit margins, but still $30k is pennies for one person and wealth for another.

Brandonm, so how many head of cattle in a calf/cow operation would you say is necessary to live off of it? For someone who is not looking to make a fortune, but only to sustain their family.

[brandonm_13]

Hard to say. As just posted, you could make up to $30k with the approach mentioned earlier. Custom grazing on leased land is one good way, as well as running a cow calf operation and finishing livestock for retail sales are two good ways to get to full time production, but you have to know quite a bit about forages, soil, reproduction, marketing. These are all things that would take time. I would recommend starting slow, keeping a record of all of your expenses and basing things off of your profit margins. Just remember, things change from year to year, and some things change depending on how large or small you are.

Theoretically, if you could make $100 profit on a calf in a cow calf situation, you would need 10 calves for $1,000, 100 calves for $10,000, and so on. In a cow-calf situation, that would mean you need a minimum of 100 cows, and 1-4 bulls depending on breeding strategies. Plus you would need land, fencing, water, etc.

Personally, I would try to make my profit per acre go up as much as possible before adding acreage, whether you do that from using moveable chicken pens to reduce parasites(instead of spending money with commercial products) and sell eggs and/or meat. Adding goats would reduce your cost of herbicides needed, and the kids born could be sold, or you could fill your freezer. Anytime you can put farm produce on the table by growing it instead of buying it, you increase your profit margins by reducing cost. You can also tell what your product tastes like which helps you determine if there are practices that you need to change.

[Ewassall]

Hard to say. As just posted, you could make up to $30k with the approach mentioned earlier. Custom grazing on leased land is one good way, as well as running a cow calf operation and finishing livestock for retail sales are two good ways to get to full time production, but you have to know quite a bit about forages, soil, reproduction, marketing. These are all things that would take time. I would recommend starting slow, keeping a record of all of your expenses and basing things off of your profit margins. Just remember, things change from year to year, and some things change depending on how large or small you are.

Theoretically, if you could make $100 profit on a calf in a cow calf situation, you would need 10 calves for $1,000, 100 calves for $10,000, and so on. In a cow-calf situation, that would mean you need a minimum of 100 cows, and 1-4 bulls depending on breeding strategies. Plus you would need land, fencing, water, etc.

Personally, I would try to make my profit per acre go up as much as possible before adding acreage, whether you do that from using moveable chicken pens to reduce parasites(instead of spending money with commercial products) and sell eggs and/or meat. Adding goats would reduce your cost of herbicides needed, and the kids born could be sold, or you could fill your freezer. Anytime you can put farm produce on the table by growing it instead of buying it, you increase your profit margins by reducing cost. You can also tell what your product tastes like which helps you determine if there are practices that you need to change.

Thanks, I appreciate your time.

Brief question, and I apologize if it comes off as an ignorant question. Your estimate of $100 profit per calf in a calf/cow operation.... what is your definition of profit?

Is it simply money put into the cow and calf MINUS money received from selling the calf?

Or does it include....diesel for the tractor? mortgage payment for the land? cost of equipment? etc?