enlighten ME...PLEASE

[SANDTRAP]

sinclair cattle co.
superior auction
lot 194
bull sold for 61500.00 what the heck most sold for less than 5000.00
epd
bw 2.5
ww 50
yw 87
milk 17
marb 0.27
rea 0.19
c ez 7

act.
bw 92
adj ww 753
adj yw 1313
sire bt right time 24j
dam mgsn bar emulation ext

[kerley]

I saw that. There were bulls that sold for much less than 3K. I'm curious what they feed to get the size in one year. My bull is thirteen months old and fed only pasture grass and mineral and hay. He is not that big. Sorry, I am not trying to steal your thread,just commenting.
Tom.

[DOC HARRIS]

I got into the sale at about lot #147 or so, and did not see the individual you referenced at $61,500.00. I agree with what? about "paper trading". A great percentage of these extemely high "Dollars!!" paid for individual animals at a lot of these Auctions is for advertising and public relations. And Bull Pucky!

I will comment, also, on this sale, if I may. The majority of the individuals that I observed sell were not worth any more than was paid for them. I was a little surprised because Sinclair has had some pretty decent sales in the past and the animals brought more or less the going average for the time. But it seemed to me that their quality at this sale did not come up to their usual presentations.

Just my opinion.

DOC HARRIS

[capt]

I had internet troubles during the sale and missed most of it but did get to see lot 194 (tattoo 8BT2) sell but missed who bought him. I saw a very stout, wide based bull with a lot of rib shape and capacity but not enough hip, quarter and stifle to suit me. Jeff Ward thought enough of him to decide to display him at the World Angus Forum coming up this summer. A lot of promotion and excitement can do a lot of good at an event like that. The bull himself performed very well, maybe a little above and beyond what I would expect the pedigree to predict but that can happen from time to time, not often, but it can happen!!

Doc, I agree that the rest of what I saw did not impress me near what I expected it to. I am guessing the bulls saw a little more winter than in the last couple of years. That can make a difference.

[SANDTRAP]

I had internet troubles during the sale and missed most of it but did get to see lot 194 (tattoo 8BT2) sell but missed who bought him. .

Ratcliff Ranch
Vinita, Oklahoma

[redcowsrule33]

I saw that. There were bulls that sold for much less than 3K. I'm curious what they feed to get the size in one year. My bull is thirteen months old and fed only pasture grass and mineral and hay. He is not that big. Sorry, I am not trying to steal your thread,just commenting.
Tom.

A finely tuned ration with a fair amount of concentrate, I'm guessing. There is a big difference of opinion out there on the "best" way to feed out a bull and still allow him to express his genes w/o compromising his breeding soundness and longevity. I believe there was a thread a few months ago debating this. Too lazy to search it right now.

High dollar bulls at this age tend to be a lot of hoopla. If you like to throw money around, do it, it gives the rest of us something to talk about. That's the fundamental of advertising. Just be prepared to wear the mud as graciously as the glory. I've learned to be picky about what I sample as yearlings and let someone else's herd prove out the rest.

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I saw that. There were bulls that sold for much less than 3K. I'm curious what they feed to get the size in one year. My bull is thirteen months old and fed only pasture grass and mineral and hay. He is not that big. Sorry, I am not trying to steal your thread,just commenting.
Tom.

In quality herds, a 753# adj weaning weight is quite normal WITHOUT any creep feed to the calves or grain to the cows - just grass and hay and mineral. Granted, you won't get a 1313 adj YW without grain. But, good, bad or indifferent - a grain fed 1313# bull will bring more $$$ 99% of the time over a 900# (or most likely less #'s) grass fed bull.
"Most" grass fed herds (meaning grass finishing herds - all cow/calf herds should be grass fed herds) have smaller frame type cattle to fit your program and may find it almost impossible to achieve a 700+# weaning weight on mom's milk & grass.

[Frankie]

But it's not always about trading paper. Some interesting info on Ratcliff Ranch and their relationship with Sinclair:

http://www.sinclaircattle.com/ratcliff_ ... t=archives

Every single N Bar Primetime D806-sired steer that we know of, that still had tags at the feedlot so we could identify it as from this program, has graded choice or better.

With every calf from a specific bull grading Choice, I'd expect they'd be willing to pay more for another one. Ratcliff buys some of their customer's calves and sends them through the feedlot. With these genetics, they can be more confident that the cattle will be profitable.

[capt]

Thanks for the info about Ratcliff Ranch. It is a sensible move for them in my opinion. Exposure at a world angus event partnered with a proven line breeding program displaying a bull who sorted to the top or near the top of his contemporaries in a large pool. Anyone know what he scanned?

Thanks

[Northern Rancher]

Well you don't need to pay $60,000 plus to get a bull that will sire calves that can marble-if EVERY rancher retained ownership so they had a clue what they have genetically at home they sure could make more informed decisions at bull sales. Alot of people are trying to fix things that aren't broken and are missing some things that are. I'm sure the purchaser feels the bull will give them a positive return financially or they wouldn't of bought him.

[Northern Rancher]

After reading that article-if Ratcliffe's can replace Primetime in their commercial deals with the new bull-he's a bargain. I know even on my little outfit if I buy a new bull that looks promising we collect a semen bank on him-for insurance reasons and to be able to access the genetics forever. I just sold some semen on a bull we drew 18 years ago.

[Brandonm22]

"Jeanne-Simme Valley"

In quality herds, a 753# adj weaning weight is quite normal WITHOUT any creep feed to the calves or grain to the cows - just grass and hay and mineral. Granted, you won't get a 1313 adj YW without grain. But, good, bad or indifferent - a grain fed 1313# bull will bring more $$$ 99% of the time over a 900# (or most likely less #'s) grass fed bull.
"Most" grass fed herds (meaning grass finishing herds - all cow/calf herds should be grass fed herds) have smaller frame type cattle to fit your program and may find it almost impossible to achieve a 700+# weaning weight on mom's milk & grass.

Are we talking averaging 753 or achieving 753 on your top calves??? If somebody is saying that they average an actual 753 lbs without ANY grain, I don't believe them. THAT said, if you have 60 middle of the road commercial cows, no drought, plenty of grass, a sensible health program that keeps the worms in check, a bull with some growth to him, and they don't go without minerals of course your heaviest steers/bulls should be topping 750. To get an AVERAGE of 570 or 580 you need some chunky calves to help that avg. out.

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

First, I would hope breeders were only keeping their BEST for breeding purposes. I was not talking average. Although, when I had frame 8+ cattle, we easily averaged over 750# - heifers, bulls & steers combined. Difficult with our smaller framed cattle. Last year our males (bulls & steers) averaged 683# adjusted to 205 day weight. This is no creep feed - just mom's milk & grass (hay prior to greening up). Now, granted these are on great milking Simmentals and here in NY we grow grass as good as any place (while we have the weather - summer vs winter (6 months) ).

[Brandonm22]

Can you winter those cows for six months in THAT kind of weather without any GRAIN though??? NO GRAIN is a higher more difficult standard than NO CREEP.

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Can you winter those cows for six months in THAT kind of weather without any GRAIN though??? NO GRAIN is a higher more difficult standard than NO CREEP.

Brandonm22 - yes - no grain. I could NEVER afford to feed my cows grain. My COWS get a GOOD mineral year round. They get rotational grazing throughout our summer (usually end of April thru early Nov). As many big dry bales the weather will let us put up & the rest BALEAGE in winter. NO GRAIN. I run more than just a backyard full of cows. I would go bankrupt trying to grain my cows. Besides, I don't have any way to feed that many cows grain. You don't put feed on the ground around here.
My replacement HEIFERS get grain thru their first winter until they are bred (at most 5#/hd/day), then they are turned out to pasture with the cows and are treated as cows from then on. (they are hayed in seperate paddocks than the cows during the winter & are kept seperated after calving til grass - but still no grain).
So, yes, I can get those WW without creep feeding the calves or graining the cows. I wean calves in Sept, so the cows get into good BCS BEFORE winter on fall pastures. Like I said, we have GREAT grass here in NY and my cows are great milkers.
This was our attempt at late fall stock-piled grazing - weather kinda didn't cooperate.


There were 40+ cows in this group. We do have RED ones too, just don't see any in this pic.

Here's some weaned replacement heifers - pic taken same day as above - I was feeding mineral.