Please don"t try this at home!

[alacattleman]

So when I get in the chute behind the sweep gate and sweep them into the head gate I am taking unnecessary risks? What shall I do? Buy one of those Molly chutes with the remote control turrett gate that cost 30 million dollars? I dont think so.

i dont think their trying too pin you down to anything ..... just conversation

[Brandonm22]

I don't see what the big deal was. The old man needed his bull to do something and his methods worked today with THAT bull. As comfortable as the bull was around people, he would probably crush somebody who hit him with a shocker or kick the bejavers out of somebody who touched him with a stick. I don't like to work with cattle like that; but he knows his animals and it was him taking the risks and IT WORKED.

[angie]

I don't see what the big deal was.

Yes you do. You may not see it as a big deal, but you can recognize the validity of the concern. For example ~ try finding a Mn farmers with all 10 fingers. Its not because they lack brains or experience when working with equipment, its because familiarity and routine breed carelessness, and thats when people get hurt.

[djinwa]

Well, I have had some training in risk analysis, and I need more information than "there are people getting killed by bulls everywhere".

First, I need to know incidence rates. Of all people who handle bulls, how many were killed? Is it one in a hundred or one in a million. We all take some risks every day based on the likelihood of it affecting us. I hear every night on the news of someone killed in a car accident, yet I'm crazy enough to keep driving because I consider the risk to be low enough.

Secondly, all bulls are not created equal. This old man mentioned these were 4H bulls. If all bulls are killers, why do I go the fair and see ladies leading ton+ bulls around with halters while city slickers with children walk right next to them?

[Angus Cowman]

I don't agree with his methods but people may not agree with mine either
I am not scared of my bulls and they aren't mean or hard to handle

I would also rather handle a single bull than a group of bulls because I have had a group get in the corrals and a lower pecking order bull will get to close to a dominant bull and the lower bull will run over you to get away from the dom bull not because he is trying to hurt you but because out of self preservation
I can go into a herd of cows and sort my bulls off and drive them away

No problem but I never trust them 100% and always am aware of what is going on and make sure I can get out of they way if needed
I have trained my bulls to a bull whip and I can go crack it and they start paying attention

I had 2 bulls and the neighbors bulls get together because his SIL left a gate open to a pasture so the bulls got in adjacent pastures and then they took the fence out and started fighting
I drove down in the pasture got out of the trk and popped that whip my bulls turned and looked at me and I started towards them popping the whip and they headed back to their pasture because they know when it starts popping they are supposed to move away from me

My advice is have good calm bulls but always be aware and respect them

[Rod]

So when I get in the chute behind the sweep gate and sweep them into the head gate I am taking unnecessary risks? What shall I do? Buy one of those Molly chutes with the remote control turrett gate that cost 30 million dollars? I dont think so.

I'm not talking about behind a sweep, I'm saying he was walking down the chute which had panels tied to the top so nothing could jump out. And another thing...we dont really think about it or in my case dont want to...At 40 I dont move like I did at 20 and I can only imagine what its going to be like at 80. Thats probably what bothered me the most was that If something did go wrong things weren't gonna be in his favor.

[Brandonm22]

I don't see what the big deal was.

Yes you do. You may not see it as a big deal, but you can recognize the validity of the concern. For example ~ try finding a Mn farmers with all 10 fingers. Its not because they lack brains or experience when working with equipment, its because familiarity and routine breed carelessness, and thats when people get hurt.

Everybody dies......somewhere and somehow. The old man took a calculated risk and it worked. I see people take bigger gambles all the time getting on the interstate.

[Susie David]

It's the pets that hurt folks...a fella never lets his guard down when working a bad cow but can be easily distarcted around the stable and easily worked ones. Only takes a split second for the animal to react differently than expected and have a hoof catch you in the leg or a head swing around and knock you into the rails.
Reading the animal is a long time learning and needs to be constantly practiced...only takes a second to miss a signal and have a really bad day.
Have had some toes smashed from when I went dancing with Susie's pet herf...nothing like having a cow standing on your foot and falling over even holding on to the horns. Seemed like forever to get her to move her hoof...just walked up and stood on my foot...and yes, I wasn't paying attention at the time.
And that's my two bits worth...asked for or not...DMc

[Brute 23]

The man was fully aware of the risks. Let him be, say some thing if you must but then be done with it.

[alacattleman]

It's the pets that hurt folks...a fella never lets his guard down when working a bad cow but can be easily distarcted around the stable and easily worked ones. Only takes a split second for the animal to react differently than expected and have a hoof catch you in the leg or a head swing around and knock you into the rails.
Reading the animal is a long time learning and needs to be constantly practiced...only takes a second to miss a signal and have a really bad day.
Have had some toes smashed from when I went dancing with Susie's pet herf...nothing like having a cow standing on your foot and falling over even holding on to the horns. Seemed like forever to get her to move her hoof...just walked up and stood on my foot...and yes, I wasn't paying attention at the time.
And that's my two bits worth...asked for or not...DMc

ive had horses step on my foot and jerk back.. but a dumb cow will stomp down and stay there till lightnin' strikes plus them sharp hooves hurt like he1$

[Rod]

What worked for him was stuff that worked when he was much younger, I believe we all need to re evaluate our practices as we age.

[msscamp]

What worked for him was stuff that worked when he was much younger, I believe we all need to re evaluate our practices as we age.

That works really well in theory, but how many cattlemen(or women, for that matter) do you know who will admit to getting older or accept that their relexes are not what they used to be? I'm thinking not many! Perhaps we will be able to see how you deal with age, and the realization that you cannot do the things you used to be able to do.

[dun]

What worked for him was stuff that worked when he was much younger, I believe we all need to re evaluate our practices as we age.

That works really well in theory, but how many cattlemen(or women, for that matter) do you know who will admit to getting older or accept that their relexes are not what they used to be? I'm thinking not many! Perhaps we will be able to see how you deal with age, and the realization that you cannot do the things you used to be able to do.

I know I can;t run backwards as fast as a calf/cow/bull/steer.

[Angus Cowman]

What worked for him was stuff that worked when he was much younger, I believe we all need to re evaluate our practices as we age.

That works really well in theory, but how many cattlemen(or women, for that matter) do you know who will admit to getting older or accept that their relexes are not what they used to be? I'm thinking not many! Perhaps we will be able to see how you deal with age, and the realization that you cannot do the things you used to be able to do.

I will be the first to admit that I can't do things the way I did 20 or heck even 10yrs ago that is why I have built my setup to work cows so 1 or 2 people can do it
also why I have cabbed tractors now because I can't handle the heat for 12 hrs a day like I used to
also why I have the WIFE do most of the work it is easier on me

[3waycross]

Angus Cowman

I never appreciated what an Agricultural Knowledger you are until I read this post. Pure genius, especially the part about havin the wife do most of the work. I think I speak for most of the men here when I say Well done , extremely well done